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July 3, 2007 at 1:20 am #760
Phidippides
KeymasterAn old vineyard was discovered…southern France…dating to about 10 B.C.:France's earliest winery foundI recall watching something on TV how the Romans drank wine that was unlike the wine we're used to today. Back then it was a thick, almost syruppy substance which I believe was served and then mixed with water. I doubt the taste was the same as a modern chianti or merlot. However, it's undoubted that the drink was fermented into alcohol.
December 9, 2009 at 4:37 pm #9152Aetheling
ParticipantIn Vino VeritasHave you heard about: "Mettre de l'eau dans son vin" ? (roughly translated by put "water in one's wine")
December 10, 2009 at 1:37 am #9153Phidippides
KeymasterPerhaps that line is related to the ancient practice then, eh? Come to think of it, they may have continued adding water to their wine into the Middle Ages for all I know.
December 10, 2009 at 11:00 am #9154scout1067
ParticipantPerhaps that line is related to the ancient practice then, eh? Come to think of it, they may have continued adding water to their wine into the Middle Ages for all I know.
The way I understand it they did. Medieval man cut his wine for hygenic reasons although they did not know that. they just knew that if you cut wine and drank it instead of pure water you did not get sick as often. It is still possible to buy wines that need to be cut today.
December 11, 2009 at 1:29 pm #9155Aetheling
ParticipantAccording to Hugh Johnson (1) : Like most wines in the ancient worlds, sweet white wine was the most highly prized wine style. The wines were often very alcoholic, with Pliny noting that you could bring a candle flame to a cup of Falernian and it would catch fire. Because of this strength, the wines were often diluted with warm water and sometimes even salty seawater.The Romans were very keen on the aroma of the wines and would experiment with different techniques in order to enhance a wine's bouquet. One technique that gained some usage in southern Gaul was planting herbs like lavender and thyme in the vineyards, believing that the flavors would transfer through the ground into the fruit of the grapevines.Another technique widely practiced was to store amphorae in a smoke chamber called fumarium to add smokiness to their flavour.The quality of the beverage depended on the amount of pure grape juice used to make the beverage and how diluted the wine was when it was served. The best quality wine was reserved for the upper classes of Rome. Below that was posca a mixture of water and sour wine that had not yet turned into vinegar. :-The use of posca for soldier's rations was codified in the Corpus Juris Civilis and amounted to around a liter per day for each soldier. (Drunkards legions ???)During Ancient Greece, the wine was almost always diluted, usually with water or snow when the wine was to be served cold. The Greeks believed that only barbarians drank unmixed or undiluted wine and that the Spartan king Cleomenes I was once driven insane after drinking wine this way. (2) Just like they despised the Celts drinking wine pure !As you said , water can be "healthlessness" if pure 😉(1) H. Johnson, Vintage:The Story of Wine, Simon and Schuster 1989(2) J. Robinson (ed), "The Oxford Companion to Wine", Third Edition, Oxford University Press 2006
December 11, 2009 at 1:45 pm #9156scout1067
ParticipantNotice I was speaking of the Middle Ages and not antiquity. The unknown antiseptic properties of alcohol were also partly what made beer so popular in the medieval world. There are some references here, here and this quote:
Beverages in the Dark Ages consisted mainly of alcohol-related quaffs. Mead, wine, port, ale, beer, caudell (ale or wine beaten with egg yolks), cider, cotignac, mure (wine from blackberries), perry (pear juice), spiced wines and distillates. Water was used in cooking, but only when the purity of it was certain. Drinking water by itself was not a common practice in medieval times. Most water came from springs, which were known to be often poisonous. Alcoholic drinks were more readily available and thought to be beneficial. Coffee, tea and cocoa were non-existent in the middle ages.
from hereHere is a nice little article: History of Alcohol and Drinking around the World
December 11, 2009 at 3:49 pm #9157Aetheling
ParticipantGreat links !I wonder about the expression: In Vino Veritas
December 11, 2009 at 4:02 pm #9158scout1067
ParticipantSimple, every drunk thinks they have the answer to the world's problems. If only they worked so well when you sober up 😀
December 11, 2009 at 4:27 pm #9159Aetheling
ParticipantAccording to an account in the Book of John, Jesus was attending a wedding feast in Cana, Galilee, with his disciples. When the hosts ran out of wine, Jesus' mother said, “They have no more wine.” Jesus replied, “Dear woman, why do you involve me? My time has not yet come.” Jesus' mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you” (John 2:3-5). Jesus ordered the servants to fill the empty jars with water. When they had done so, Jesus told them to draw out some of it and take it to the chief waiter. After tasting the water that had become wine and not knowing what Jesus had done, he told the bridegroom that he had departed from the custom of serving the best wine first by serving it last (John 2:6-10). This was the first miracle of Jesus and it was performed to reveal his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him (John 2:11).Damn, this is appealing !
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