Then choose a more regressive tax–or–get the law changed–or abolish the agency (IRS).One way or another people must pay for the services they demand and they do so through taxes.  Theprogressive income tax had one goal--those who could afford to pay more ought to--for the common goodas well as--my spin on this-- because as wealthy people they had more property to protect.  Perhaps we ought to institute a defense tax--law enforcement and military--on all people--10 percent of your income to protect your stuff, your property and your investments.Who is a good decider--Wall Street?

Heavens–such passion!  I shall try to answer as best I can–I am no longer as good as i once was.1.Insert QuoteHow about letting those people that work decide where there money is spent?  What is wrong with that?Does that exclude people who no longer work--like me?  Does it exclude the wealthy who do not work?Are you advocating a direct democracy rather than a Republic?  I cannot see how such a thing wouldwork as the various factions would vote their particular interests (money) and there would be no waythat the national interests could prevail.2.  I take a minimalist view of government.  Government?s role is to protect the nation from external threats and provide safety and security for its citizens.  That safety and security does not include a house, food, or spending money, that is what jobs are for.This is an old chestnut and I wearily take up the club to bash it.  The Government's role is whatever thepeople say it is at a certain point in time.  The Constitution was, as you well know, written in broadterms so as to permit revision or alternative interpretation from time to time.  Let us take part of your comment--safety and security for the people.  Who inspects the meat?  Who guards the borders andalters the rules there to fit the needs of the day?  Who steps in when disaster strikes and provides free food, shelter, clothing, money and even housing for the unfortunate victims of nature's fury?  Why dowe wear seat belts?  Because the insurance lobby got to Congress and despite the 10th amendment thestates like hungry hogs took the federal dollars to pass mandatory legislation so that local blue clad Hitler youth types could enhance local revenue by stopping granny because her seat belt is undoneI understand that you are in the military as I was.  I recall that so long as I obeyed orders, did myjob and kept out of trouble, all my needs were met.  I would never lack for medical care, food, shelteror money and at the end, had i stayed in, there was a wonderful pension and opportunity to work in the private sector if I chose utilizing those skills I learned in the military at their free school.  Is it stillthe same?You are also stationed in Germany and speak German?  You must then know that many Germans wouldnot trade their system for ours.  Have you contemplated the reasons for this?  You must have to some extent as your condemnation of our schools was apropos.Jobs are wonderful things--as soon as I got out of the military I got one--in a steel plant in Lackawanna New York--it was horrible--dark satanic mills!3.Is it not curious that the government got by just fine for over 130 years without a universal income tax?  Want to control federal spending?  Take away the income tax and make the government get back to basics and quit trying to take of people from cradle to grave.  It is no wonder so many do not work when the government will essentially pay you not to.No--it is not curious at all--Excise taxes, sale of government land and Customs duties funded the government needs for all those years except for the Civil War when the income tax was instituted and then found to be unconstitutional.  Government basics today are quite complex.  The people demandservices and these must be paid for.  Now I agree that politicians of all stripes play to the crowd, donthe strumpet's shift and troll for votes.  Once elected they pass legislation that costs money.  Now thiscan only be raised by taxes.  You may say that we should cut programs--sounds good--very hard to do.Do you know that we have 11 Carrier groups and have a Navy larger than than most of the worldcombined?  Would you, knowing this, and being a fiscal conservative, suggest we cut back to 9 carrier groups?  Of course not--you are a politician, not a fool!  Much easier to rail against those who are seento feed at the public trough.  Remember in high school that the lad of virtue was he who took on the big bully, the tough job, the hard tasks.  Blaming the poor for being poor is so 19th Century.4.I will not go so far as to call them useless eaters, but the temptation is certainly there.  Yes there should be some sort of safety net.  I am not advocating letting people starve, but where now is the incentive to get off of social assistance.  I still remember the whining when welfare reform was passed in the mid 90?s from people that realized they might actually have to work for a living.Excellent--there should be a safety net--you have become enlightened.  Bismarck said this in the 19thCentury and he also said that it was part of the government's duty to ensure the welfare of the people.Now you can be cynical and he wanted healthy sheep to sheer and bodies to throw against Danish,Austrian and French cannon, but I take a different view.  He was no Socialist, but he did recognize thatthey were all in the boat together and a healthy body politic content, happy, tractable and willing tolive prosperous lives under a government that was only partially democratic--smart fella!I cannot respond to the number of people on what now passes for welfare--lets call it the vast mass ofnon-working poor.  You were most generous saying you would not let them starve.  How about clothing,heat, medical attention, dental work, shelter and recreation?  There must be millions of halt, lame, blind, crippled, mentally unstable, children, retarded people, burned out, old and decrepit individuals in the country.  Who is to care for them and who is to set the standard of care and concern and who is to pay for all this?Unless you own property in the US--you pay no real estate taxes.  In my county in New York--every dollar collected on real estate goes to fund Medicaid--every dollar.  That means that local governmenthas zero dollars for anything else--zero dollars.  Income taxes, sales taxes, fees and other devilish devices have been introduced to try to plug the gap--all to no avail.  New York, like many other states is broke--we are for all practical purposes in a Depression and you are insulated.  There are many people who want to work--there are few jobs. Private enterprise bought the regulators and politicians and thenfouled the nest.  That's ok--we and our children's children will pay for the greed that stalked wall street.5.That part of the Constitution about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness does not imply the right to live off the government dole, it implies the provision of circumstances for the average citizen to conduct business to their full potential unstifled by burdensome regulation.No it does not and it the implication you cite is merely that, an implication.  Are you not on thin ice?Who is to say what burdensome regulation is--the Constitution does not place any such limitationon Congress--it states--Article 1, section 8, clause 18--"Make all laws necessary and proper..."Check it out.6.I also can?t find where health care is a right in the Constitution, perhaps you could enlighten me?Posted on: Yesterday at 11:42:19 PM Posted by: willyDNow you are not playing by sandbox rules.  You know I cannot, but I too will violate the sandbox rulesand I trust that you will be suitable enraged--check out Preamble to Constitution--focus your eyes onthese words...We the People....promote the general welfare...implication circuit engaged!WILLYDuntil Der Tag

--check out Preamble to Constitution--focus your eyes onthese words...We the People....promote the general welfare...implication circuit engaged!

I'm not going to get in the middle but... promote isn't the same as provide; just as the pursuit of happiness is the deal not happiness itself. CAUTION: CYNIC AT WORK!  8)

... but would include land grants, canal and road construction, anticipating Ike's  great road building gift tothe nation and contractors in 1956, land for schools--all things designed to promote the general welfare--why not health care--is this not easily included under the same rubric?

Included, yes. Likely to get the same support / result, not so much. Reforming health care isn't going to benefit the ins companies like the I'state system did the building industy... unless the gov't pays for everyone's coverage. nless the compaies can see a way to make more money out of it they won't go there.  :'(

I know for a fact Canada has some problems with theirs but generally it works pretty well. We're still trying to get it here in Kalifornia.

About 100 miles north of Sac.Sounds like the students got the idea; that's should always be the point. Heck with the noise... learning in progress!

You did not lie–you changed your mind.  Now we just have to get your mind right.Medicare and Medicaid are, like Social Security are guaranteed to all eligible Americans--they werepassed by Congress, signed by the President and are the law.  You have the RIGHT to demand that these services be provided to you if you qualify under the rules.  They are a right--not a luxury.Mandated Universal single payer government health insurance is coming--you know it, I know it, we all know it--it is just a matter of time.  When it comes it will be supported by a wide coalition of interests including businesses that realize that it is better to have all pay for all then to have them pay for their workers. Labour unions will of course burn effigies of right wing mossbacks.Now you also know that all these programs were opposed by those right of center and some deemed them Socialistic or even Communistic.  This battle has been going on since Teddy was President andwhen it finally arrives I predict that it will be like a completed root canal on a big molar--it was not as bad as we thought, we are glad it is all over and now we just have to be concerned how we are going to pay the dentist.Life is unfair--civilized and compassionate societies try to lessen the pain--do you not think this praiseworthy?

Wally:  You are a lucky fellow.  My son lives in the Liberal enclave of Portland Oregon and we traversedthe costal highway down past the redwoods.  Unhappily we stopped in Eureka.  You live in a paradise,I live just outside Buffalo, New York--ugh!