Home › Forums › The Middle Ages › Monastic revival in the late 11th-early 12th century
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November 24, 2009 at 12:49 am #1813
skiguy
ModeratorWas there a revival of monasticism in this time period? I say yes, and it was a result of the Gregorian revolution and the investiture controversy. The church penetrated the world and there was fear the church would lose its influence and identity. This fear was especially magnified when their was much lay influence on church leadership. The solution: the piety had to be more moral and more spiritual than the laymen. Hence, a monastic revival.Am I way off or somewhat close?
November 24, 2009 at 2:47 am #17319Phidippides
KeymasterI'm not sure I know what you base your premise on. “Revival” presupposes that there was a drop off of what came before, followed by a significant growth spurt or flourishing. What sort of drop off/decrease occurred in the 11th century, and what is the nature of the growth that you are saying followed?
November 24, 2009 at 9:41 am #17320skiguy
ModeratorWhen the Benedictines started, they separated themselves from the world. As the centuries progressed, the monks, being the most educated men of the time, were asked to be advisors to the early kings and monarchs. These monarchs funded the monasteries, and eventually these monasteries became corrupted by power and money and were no longer separated from the world. Pope Gregory VII saw this and saw that this corruption was weakening the purpose of the church. So he intistuted reforms that would bring the monasteries back to their original intent. Maybe reform is a better word than revival?
November 24, 2009 at 5:29 pm #17321Phidippides
KeymasterIf that's the thesis that you're going with, I would respectfully take issue with it in one sense but think it's probably correct in general. There were several reforms that went on within monasticism over the Middle Ages. Up until a certain point one could find monks fighting in battles and I believe living high on the hog. Living the monastic life was a viable option for those of wealthy families who did not get married, and it wasn't much like our picture of monasticism today. However, during the Early Middle Ages there were a few reforms of monasticism (I can think of one or two before the 11th century) where higher levels of Christian spirituality were adopted. So yes, I would say that "reform" is probably a better word than "revival" (barring any evidence that there was a large spread of monasticism after Pope Gregory's actions). I don't doubt that many monasteries grew lax over the centuries (there are plenty of stories that point to this as happening throughout the history of Christianity) but there were also a number of efforts by those withing monasteries and convents to reinvigorate their communities with deeper religious practice.
November 24, 2009 at 8:00 pm #17322skiguy
ModeratorHmm, I'll have to review this better. I was under the impression that the monasteries gave way (or in) to the monarchies and basically became part of the monarchies, and consequently became more od a localized authority rather than a universal authority. Gregory wanted them to be apart from the monarchies so the church could regain her power and authority.
November 24, 2009 at 10:11 pm #17323Phidippides
KeymasterWell, in the sense you said…I wouldn't say that monasteries became “part” of the monarchies, but indeed they did work hand-in-hand. For example, Charlemagne helped to establish monasteries in remote parts of the kingdom. Likely, he wanted to establish settle those areas (cities grew up around monasteries) and bring the people into the Christian faith. Monks also wanted to convert people. So their aims would have overlapped, and I don't think that kings of abbots would have had problems with this arrangement.I can see where a problem may have developed over time where abbots gained a lot of power and were competing with castellans or others who held regional power during the High Middle Ages. Later on I can give you a name or two of examples of reform during the Early Middle Ages.
November 25, 2009 at 12:30 am #17324skiguy
ModeratorLater on I can give you a name or two of examples of reform during the Early Middle Ages.
Give hints instead and I'll try to guess them (and probably make a complete fool of myself 😮 )
November 25, 2009 at 3:55 am #17325Phidippides
KeymasterOk, I checked my source. Charlemagne actually did support reforms within monasticism. There was also a monk who led a reform. This figure has since been canonized a saint, and was from a town in southern France. Also, there was a monarch after Charlemagne who led a reform; you may be able to guess this spiritual man based on his title alone. Let's see if you can guess the last two.
November 25, 2009 at 4:40 pm #17326scout1067
ParticipantIs the first guy Benedict? and the second Saint Louis?
November 25, 2009 at 5:16 pm #17327skiguy
ModeratorMy guess right off the top of my head is that the answer to Benedict is no. I say this because he founded (c. 520s) the monasteries rather than reformed them. BTW, it should be known, I have a very pro-bias attitude towards Benedict. I think he rocked and the monks that came from his monasteries were the geniuses of early Europe.
November 25, 2009 at 5:38 pm #17328scout1067
ParticipantThat was my SWAG. My rule is no Googling when people pop questions on the forum because that is cheating. ;D
November 25, 2009 at 5:49 pm #17329skiguy
ModeratorWhat's SWAG? I didn't cheat by googling, I looked at my notes. Still trying to find the answers...will get back on that shortly.
November 25, 2009 at 5:54 pm #17330scout1067
ParticipantSWAG= Simple Wild Assed Guess. I am shocked and amazed that you have never heard the term before. It is what you do in military planning when you have no intel and no clue about enemy disposition or intentions. ;D
November 25, 2009 at 6:21 pm #17331Wally
ParticipantI use WASD… Wild Assed Stab in the Dark… ;D
November 25, 2009 at 7:24 pm #17332scout1067
ParticipantI have heard that one before too. I prefer SWAG though, it just has a little more zing I think.
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