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Having opted out of the Financing the Fed. Gov't…. thread, I propose this poll. Should be interesting. Feel free to explain your vote and / or any (options from the list or of your own) that would qualify your vote.Wally
My standing?Easy:Pay your taxes. If you cheat you are stealing from me.Best kind of tax--?? I was weaned on the progressive income tax and on the idea that those who can affordto pay a little more ought to do so. This idea no longer has wide support so I imagine I am in the minorityand some sort of regressive tax will be forthcoming.WillyD
Based on my input at the financing gov. Thread it is probably fairly obvious how I vote. That and that I am apparently the farthest person to the right on this board based on an informal ranking a while ago. I am probably so far right because I am in the military or southern or both. I guess I am just an obstinate redneck though I opted out of farming for a living and chose to serve my country instead.
While my vote is, pretty much, the point Willy made in his last post in the other thread (#22; and a major truth about taxation that I taught in class) your (apparent) vote is my qualifyer.Less obstinate redneck IMHO and more observer of the wider world and how it funtions; thank you for your service to us all.
This is an interesting poll because I agree with sentiments in several of them, but not fully with any of them, and so I had to chose the best one.Paying is my duty and I gladly pay my fair share.As it currently stands, I certainly do not fill out my tax forms gladly - even if only because of the nightmare that has become of filing one's own taxes.Paying is my duty and I comply, with reservations based on the use of my contributions.I do have reservations for their use because they are often used on things that the state should not be involved with.I pay because I am compelled to.True, although if we were to start from Square One and rebuild the tax system, I would agree to paying taxes in some form. So I am not against all taxation by any means.I pay but disagree with the system for collection and feel the government wastes much of what is collected.Yes, this is true.I agree with the idea that taxes are the way society pays for the things people cannot or will not do for themselves, but are necessary to make society function.I wonder if "but" should not have been "and" here. This is the answer I chose, since taxes are necessary (who else would pay for the roads? national defense?). There are many qualifiers to this, but it is a decent answer.Taxes are nothing more than a ritualistic redistribution of wealth.This may be true of the tax system as it now stands, and in the direction it is headed in the U.S., but in principle taxes don't have to be this way.Pay your taxes. If you cheat you are stealing from me.This answer implies collective ownership of individual income, and a sort of entitlement as well, which is why I do not like the answer. In theory, if a person cheated and did not pay taxes when they were at a reasonable rate, that person would have violated his duty to the common good.
Pay your taxes. If you cheat you are stealing from me.This answer implies collective ownership of individual income, and a sort of entitlement as well, which is why I do not like the answer. In theory, if a person cheated and did not pay taxes when they were at a reasonable rate, that person would have violated his duty to the common good.Disagree--you are not reading it correctly. There is nothing collective about this statement. If the taxesrequired are X dollars and you cheat, others are required to make up the difference from their individualpockets. I see no word (s) that suggest entitlement in the statement--please elaborate. The common good (general welfare) is part of our heritage and cheating on your taxes, regardless of your opinion of what a "reasonable" rate is, violates not only the law, but the idea that we are all Americans and in this together in peace as well as war. This last was a collective statement, but was not included in the original submission.You did not like the answer, I did not like the analysis.
Disagree--you are not reading it correctly. There is nothing collective about this statement. If the taxesrequired are X dollars and you cheat, others are required to make up the difference from their individualpockets. I see no word (s) that suggest entitlement in the statement--please elaborate. The common good (general welfare) is part of our heritage and cheating on your taxes, regardless of your opinion of what a "reasonable" rate is, violates not only the law, but the idea that we are all Americans and in this together in peace as well as war. This last was a collective statement, but was not included in the original submission.You did not like the answer, I did not like the analysis.
To elaborate, if I were to point the finger at someone and say, "You're stealing from me!" by underpayment of taxes, that implies that the income of another is rightfully owed to me. I don't like that analysis because it uses a "property right" basis for taxation justification. Right now, according to reports, I think something like 50% of Americans don't pay federal tax. For those 50% of people to sit back and wave their fingers at the other 50% for slight underpayment seems to play into the nation of class envy/warfare. At the same time, if the top 50% were to wave their fingers at the bottom 50% for slight underpayment (assuming for the moment they had to pay) on the basis of a "property right" would make it seem like the rich are bullying the poor. Either way, this "property right" basis is a bad justification, IMO.
Wally:I have failed to make my point. Let us agree to disagree agreeably.WillyD (taxpayer, citizen, veteran, patriot, property owner and optimist)
It was 42% in 2006, I have heard the number of 47% bandied about for the number of people that don't have to pay this year.
Willy, I think I understand what you are meaning; if someone cheats the gov't, the gov't is more likely to tighten rules and oversight on the rest of us (I also assume that you mean gross evasion or fraud, rather than the ignorant mistakes made due to the convoluted nature of the tax codes). With this I agree, If I am wrong about your intent please correct my error. I also think Phid might agree with my point here.[aside]That is why I modified the poll to include your option.[/aside]Scout, it was 47% that I read;the reall pi$$er is that many of them will get $ back from the gov't. in the form of various credits they may qualify for. a point I think you already mentioned.
No–you are not wrong. I am guilty of thinking that we are all Americans and all in this bark of democracy together. It will fail unless we adopt and support policies that provide some for all. This is not Socialism, it is common sense, it is self defense and it is the right thing to do. Taxes, as transfer payments from the better off to the lesser well off and the poor have been used for many years from FDR to Reagan and beyond. To think that we can all retreat to gated compounds with private police forces and well policed local shopping malls is a false dream and a bad one as well. Those of us who read history have an advantage–we do not want a dystopian future whether it be one of Soylent Green or 1984. Bismarck, hardly a Liberal, understood this well and sliced and diced the Social democrats by stealing much of their program and instituting it in a Germany that was hardly a real democracy. Why is this so difficult to see for some people?
No--you are not wrong. I am guilty of thinking that we are all Americans and all in this bark of democracy together. It will fail unless we adopt and support policies that provide some for all. ....
If you are talking about the equality of opportunity (what America was founded on) I will agree; taking from me to improve someone else's lot though is still taking from me... diminishing my lot. This I can stand if it promotes opportunities and not just a free ride as some programs, sadly, do.
Why is this so difficult to see for some people?
Because it often looks alot like stealing.
Wally:In the best of all possible worlds we would have equality of opportunity. We have never had it from 1789 until today. So much depends upon where you were born, whether you have good genes, what sex and color you are, how smart you are, how driven, your ethnicity, your personality and even your hair! You were a teacher as I was and we know about having favorites among the serried ranks of our charges. Was I absolutely fairas a teacher--absolutely not. Were you?When I speak of providing for all, I do not mean that we give a car to everyone or a house or a woolen suit.What I do mean is that since the race for the goodies is compromised by factors beyond our control, it ismerely good policy to provide a floor for those who are unable or unwilling to strive for victory. It need notbe luxurious, but it needs to be. What family and charity cannot or will not provide the government already does because it is necessary and right. It is not stealing. You elect the politicians, they (in theory) listen to their constituents and have passed laws supporting just what I described. It has been this way before either of us was born. Some people, however object to this. In a truly just society we would not begrudge this aid to the poor--we would embrace it as our duty to our fellow citizens living in a democracy. Is it unfair that you will pay some of your tax money to support programs you despise or individuals you abhor--of course.Life is unfair too. If you want to construct a perfect society--go read some Marx. It will be futile, but it will help pass the time.As always--a pleasure--kudos on the movie--a truly great film IMHO.
