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It seems alarmist and biased against Islam rather than looking at the underlying cause(s). This link to fertility rates makes me wonder if it is a refugee problem and if it's mostly the African nations who are migrating. Many of these poor, overpopulated African nations who top the list are Muslim. The video doesn't really specify or prove where these Muslims are coming from. This is an immigration and poverty issue, IMHO. Some view our foreign intervention as expensive. What's more costly? Trying to stabilize countries so the native population will stay there or letting them come into ours? With Obama's messing with US-owned foreign businesses, I predict global poverty will get much worse and create very dangerous conditions. Our president is absolutely clueless and this liberal la-la land ideology is just so wrong I find it unbelievable that people actually think this way.
Yes, the video is alarmist. But I guess I see the main point of it being that Western culture is under threat of collapse and being replaced by another culture. Is that reason to be alarmed? Yes, of course. Much of what this is not due to some nefarious plot, but basically because of the West's refusal to reproduce as it should and the openness of the non-Western nations to reproduction. Economic forces then bring labor in to satisfy the demand for workers in places like Europe. In the end, it means the decay of Western culture since fewer Westerners are making up the populations of these countries. And by "decay", I mean the eventual death of Western institutions, the same ones that helped create the culture which you and I share.
If the numbers are correct, which Ski's link seems to confirm, then we are indeed facing the extinction of Western Culture. I have done my part I have 3 kids. Seems to me that we in the West can either reproduce faster or do something to reduce the population of Muslim countries. Since nobody seems to want more kids I vote we reduce the Muslims population of the world. We have all these nukes sitting around gathering dust in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming let's use them. I could come up with a pretty good target set in a couple of hours and then a few hours after that our demographic problems could be solved. We could even use Neutron bombs to minimize radioactive contamination.Yes the video is alarmist but it points to a home truth. The West is the author of its own demise. Liberal ideology does not lend itself to defend Western culture because liberals are so full of self-loathing that they want to see the West die anyway. You can see echoes of this in Obama's policy statements both before and after the election. Unless and until the West begins to have pride in its accomplishments and believe in its superiority as a culture the decline will not stop. I dont see that changing anytime soon. I fully expect to have to leave Europe for elsewhere because of the growth of Islam.The biggest problem is that our cultural institutions refuse to admit that our culture is under threat and so fail to exhort people to combat the threat. Those that do raise the flag are derided as racists and extremists. It is as if being proud of your culture and heritage as a Westerner is a bad thing, that has to change. It will only change at the individual level. I have tried to ingrain into my son this importance, but everyone needs to do it. It does no good to complain about it, we also have to DO something to combat it.
The biggest problem is that our cultural institutions refuse to admit that our culture is under threat and so fail to exhort people to combat the threat
I think many institutions blame Western culture itself, that's why.I don't know if I'd be so drastic as to nuke them, but we need to change our (the Left's) mindset about imperialism and foreign intervention. When the British Empire took Africa, the Africans STAYED there because there were jobs provided. I know we'll never do this because the Left looks at British Imperialism as utterly evil and the left only looks at initial costs rather than longterm cost, but what we did in Iraq needs to be done in, at least, many other African nations.OK, with Iraq, there was a refugee crisis where many fled the country and went to other countries which caused problems (I had a chart somewhere that should where they went, and I don't knwo how many fled to Europe), but I think we learned from our mistakes. Afghanistan's fertility rate is high, so I wonder what's going to happen when things get rough in the coming months.I would bet most of the Muslims in Europe are from places like Ethiopia and Somalia. They are fleeing poverty and fleeing violence. Both of those problems can be solved by a Western coalition to force regime change, but NO we can't do that or we'll be accused of imperialism.I dunno. Maybe it could be some underlying "plan" of Allah. But I won't go that far yet because I see how this problem could be solved. It's just that the Left won't do it because they can't accept facts. They'd rather condemn America for invading Iraq rather than praise America for making Iraq a better place. They'd rather condemn Monsanto as an evil, greedy big business rather than look at what they do with their work improving agricultural yield. Leftists are hypocrites and by condemning these things ('evil' military presence, 'evil' big business) they make the problems worse.
This set of ifs is from a class I am currently taking on 18th and 19th Century Europe. This weeks topic is Marx and Marxism. This is from a post one of my fellow students posted. It is a perfect example of why the west is failing. She poses them as ifs but her posts throughout the course have shown that she really thinks like this.
If I were a Marxist...-1992 Los Angeles Riots-Class Rebellion instead of race riot over police beating of Rodney King-The War in Iraq-The United States is the Capitalist oppressor and all those fighting against them are the oppressed (i.e. terrorists, insurgents, etc).-Men-Oppress women and minorities-Violence, dishonesty, theft, murder, etc-An inseparable part of class struggle, but (in times of peace) societies can manage without these moral infractions.-George W. Bush-Ultimate imperialist, capitalist, oppressor of the world, anti-MarxistI will try to think of some more and add them...
I don't know whether to be angry or pitiful when I read stuff like this. I have fired back throughout the course but they take the tone when they reply to me as if they are talking to a wayward child and if they just use simple enough words I might learn to hate myself too. Except for two other students in the class, the rest are horrified that I am proud of Western history and all that Western Culture has accomplished. I am afraid that before we can worry about our demographic problem we have to clean our own house first. I am thinking something along the lines of the Terror.And yes, I am partially serious about nuking them. I would first eject every Muslim from every Western country then I would target the 20 most populous cities in every majority Muslim country in the world. It is not elegant or pleasant but by God it would solve our problem. The radiation would probably keep them from being a threat for a good long time to come. I am not about feeling good, I am about looking after me and mine. The West needs to reclaim the ruthlessness we had 100+ years ago. It served us well then and apparently brotherly love only gets us in trouble and perceived as weak.Lastly, the vast majority of Muslims in France are Algerian and in Germany they are Turks. You are correct that most European Muslims originally came from Africa specifically, North Africa.
I do not think that murder on a mass scale is really a solution we should be entertaining at all, for a variety of reasons….one of which is because these Muslim nations/peoples have done no wrong here in terms of populating their countries. It's the West that is failing, and other nations are simply responding to a demand that has risen. Incidentally, the death of many European countries could come sooner from another direction as their economies fall under the weight of supporting older generations with an insufficient number of young workers….then again, that's another reason to bring in more foreign workers.I think the BEST option for survival is to somehow "convert" these immigrants into believers in Western Civilization. I know - a seemingly impossible task when many leftists aren't believers in WC as it is. Immigrants to America were similarly "converted" to American culture in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The problem becomes more serious, though, when such an influx makes it possible for a sub-culture to co-exist (and eventually overtake the main culture) without becoming assimilated.
scout, is that a student from AMU? 😮Phid, I don't disagree with converting them, but wouldn't it be better if we just provided some means to keep them in their own nations? Forcing another culture on them (which is how they..'they' as in easterners, not Leftists...would see it) could be problematic. I don't have a problem with mosques in Europe, but I am concerned that these mosques are replacing churches. That's not really a problem caused by Islamic hegemony, though, that's a problem with the decline of European Christianity.Does anyone know these stats: the number of African immigrants in Europe now, compared to the number of immigrants during the heyday of British/French colonialism in Africa. My guess is it was much, much lower during the colonial age.
Ski,Yes, it is a student at AMU.We have to get serious about preserving Western Culture. The first step will be regaining the schools and teaching the younger generation to not hate themselves or their culture. The schools are everything, as long as the left has the academy as they currently do, then the downward spiral will continue.Phid,And I am only partially serious about nuking them. It shouldn't come out of nowhere, we should warn them first. Depending on how you look at it they have done wrong in populating their own countries. They have overpopulated, which partly explains the mass immigration to the West we are seeing. If they reproduced sustainably they could stay in their playground and out of ours. I don't care what they do in the Middle East, they just need to keep it there.
Phid, I don't disagree with converting them, but wouldn't it be better if we just provided some means to keep them in their own nations? Forcing another culture on them (which is how they..'they' as in easterners, not Leftists…would see it) could be problematic. I don't have a problem with mosques in Europe, but I am concerned that these mosques are replacing churches. That's not really a problem caused by Islamic hegemony, though, that's a problem with the decline of European Christianity.
Ski, I'm not that concerned simply with people changing countries. That has happened for all time as it is, and trying to keep someone in his country is kind of hard to do. Where the problem is, as I see it, is when immigrants don't change cultures when they move to adopt the culture of the new country. I don't really care what race/ethnicity a person is as long as he comes to the country willing to put the culture of his old place on a secondary plane (no need to destroy it altogether). I imagine that I would have more in common culturally with some Rwandans or Philippinos than with some of my same race living here in the U.S.
Phid,And I am only partially serious about nuking them. It shouldn't come out of nowhere, we should warn them first. Depending on how you look at it they have done wrong in populating their own countries. They have overpopulated, which partly explains the mass immigration to the West we are seeing. If they reproduced sustainably they could stay in their playground and out of ours. I don't care what they do in the Middle East, they just need to keep it there.
In my last post I was responding to the part of you that was serious. And as I thought of it some more, it occurred to me that if we remove the entire morality question of doing that from the equation, what good would destroying a large chunk of them do? The underlying problems that is bringing the West to ruin via population extinction would remain. It would therefore only prolong the inevitable until people in the West realize the great need for procreation as the fundamental source of communities and cultures and strength.
In my last post I was responding to the part of you that was serious. And as I thought of it some more, it occurred to me that if we remove the entire morality question of doing that from the equation, what good would destroying a large chunk of them do?
It would provide the West more of a breathing space to clean up our own house for one. It would definitely send a message to terrorists that one nation in the West is at least serious about defending itself. Though I might not shed a tear if we were to do something like that, I don't think it is a very realistic option or even remotely likely to be contemplated.I would like to see the option or some other similarly retaliatory option laid on the table. Something like the next time terrorists hit an American target anywhere in the world, we are going to drop a daisy cutter (30,000 lb bomb used in Vietnam to clear helicopter landing zones) right on top of the Kaaba in Mecca. If the terrorists insist on striking Western Cultural Landmarks as they did on 9/11 we should do the same.
Do you really want what we're saying here out in the open?
I don't see why not. It may be a politically incorrect or controversial topic, but it's being discussed civilly and truthfully. Besides, maybe some of these 'guests' here are Leftists and when they read it they'll learn something. ;D
Something like the next time terrorists hit an American target anywhere in the world, we are going to drop a daisy cutter (30,000 lb bomb used in Vietnam to clear helicopter landing zones) right on top of the Kaaba in Mecca. If the terrorists insist on striking Western Cultural Landmarks as they did on 9/11 we should do the same.
Assuming the Taliban would even care, how is this going to stop them in Pakistan? All something like this will do is be the greatest recruiting tool for the extremeists and unite the Muslim world against the West. Every terrorist cell in Europe (and the Americas) will be activated.
I love playing devil's advocate ;DAbsent expelling the Muslims from the Western world or Killing them how are we going to assimilate them? We are up against a wall in the west, and that wall is our own beliefs. We hold to the primacy of personal freedom so unless we violate what we believe in we cannot force immigrants, Muslim or otherwise to assimilate. They have to want to assimilate. The Muslims and others don't want to so Catch-22. We either tolerate unassimilated segments of society or bow to reality and do something about it. I don't think Western values should amount to a suicide pact, something must give if the West is to retain its viability. I personally don't think the majority of Westerners have the stomach to do anything effective and we are therefore doomed to a slow death as both a society and culture in America and the wider Western world. That includes Japan and Korea. I just hope I dont live to see then end of it. A world without the rich legacy of the west is not a world I want to live in.
