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If the Seljuk Turks were the ones who defeated the Caliphate in the Holy Land around the 11th century, does this mean that the Holy Land was ruled by non-Muslim forces at the time of the First Crusade?
If the Seljuk Turks were the ones who defeated the Caliphate in the Holy Land around the 11th century, does this mean that the Holy Land was ruled by non-Muslim forces at the time of the First Crusade?
I don't think I understand your question. How can you have a non-Muslim "Caliphate?"
It's my understanding that the Caliphate controlled the land to the South/Southeast (Anatolia) of the Byzantine Empire (I don't recall the particular group of Muslims controlling that area at the time). I'm thinking 11th century, either early- or mid-century. The Seljuk Turks then moved in and defeated the Caliphate that occupied that land. Perhaps it's the case that those Turks were also Muslim, but I'm not entirely sure that is the case.
Extending from Central Asia to the Byzantine marches in Asia Minor, the Seljuk state under its first three sultans- Tughril Beg, Alp-Arslan, and Malikshah- established a highly cohesive, well-administered Sunni state under the nominal authority of the 'Abbasid caliphs at Baghdad.
http://islamicweb.com/history/hist_Seljuk.htmDoesn't look they really defeated the Abbasid caliphate, instead they became a part of it. IMO, they needed each other to defeat the Mongols.
Extending from Central Asia to the Byzantine marches in Asia Minor, the Seljuk state under its first three sultans- Tughril Beg, Alp-Arslan, and Malikshah- established a highly cohesive, well-administered Sunni state under the nominal authority of the 'Abbasid caliphs at Baghdad.
http://islamicweb.com/history/hist_Seljuk.htmDoesn't look they really defeated the Abbasid caliphate, instead they became a part of it. IMO, they needed each other to defeat the Mongols.
This is how I remember it. The Turks "Turkified" the Caliphate rather than "defeating it." Of course that's parsing definitions, but I guess you should view it as an internal struggle more than an external one.
The Seljuk's were Muslims however, they were non-Arab, which I think is the distinction you were trying to make.
The Seljuk's were Muslims however, they were non-Arab, which I think is the distinction you were trying to make.
That's right, the Sel?uk's were Turkish peoples who had migrated from the steppes of central Asia. And they actually created several different states one in Anatolia which I believe is called the Selcuklu Rum in English, there were also Sel?uk rulers in what is now Persia, Syria and Iraq. They are very important in Turkish history as Alparslan was the ruler who defeated the Byzantine's at Malazgirt (in modern day eastern Tukey) after the battle at Malazgirt the Byzantines never really recovered and as they fought amongst themselves the Turks moved westwords into Anatolia setting up chiefdoms here and there until Osman unified them and the Ottoman Empire was born.Similarly the success of the 1. Crusade can be attributed at least in part to the internal struggles within the Sel?uks. After Alparslan's death at 1072 Melik Şah became the ruler and he died on 1092. Subsequently the Seljuk empire dissolved into smaller, warring states, as Melik Şah's brother and four sons quarreled over the apportioning of the empire between themselves. Kılı? Arslan I re-established the Sultanate of Rum in Anatolia, and Tutuş I established himself in Syria. In Persia, Melik Şah was succeeded by his son Mahmut I whose reign was contested by his other three brothers.
I dont think the Byzantines were defeated at Manzikert so much as they were slaughtered. it is one of the most decisive victorys in history, on a par with the defeat of the Romans at Adrianople in 476. Come to think of it, isnt Adrianople also in Turkey? I remember reading somewhere, Keegan I think, That Adrianople is the most fought over town in History. There are supposedly something like 50 or so recorded battles fought for control of the town.
Come to think of it, isnt Adrianople also in Turkey? I remember reading somewhere, Keegan I think, That Adrianople is the most fought over town in History. There are supposedly something like 50 or so recorded battles fought for control of the town.
It is in Turkey and is the border town with both Bulgaria and Greece (Modern Turkish name is Edirne). I was actually thinking of going there with my wife this past weekend but didn't, if we make it there I'll share some pictures. It was the seat of the Ottoman Empire for a while, and there is also the famous Selimiye Mosque of Sinan, without a doubt the most brilliant Turkish architect ever.
If memory serves, Adrianople was the crossroads for several different caravan routes from Europe to the east which is why control of it was so strategic. Not to mention that it controls the approaches to the Bosporus, which is still one of the most accessible invasion routes from east -> west and vice-versa.
That's about right.The province highlighted in red is Edirne (Adrianople)
As you can see it's like a safety valve that protects the straits from the west. As far as I know there are some remains of Adrian's walls there also.Do you know if the site of the Roman battle there in 476 has been positively identified? It would be kind of interesting to actually stand on the spot where the Western Empire is traditionally held to have died.
I'm not sure how “positive” the id was but it says in Wikipedia that the battle took place about 8 miles from the modern day Edirne. It really depends on how picky you are when looking for proof, Edirne is famous in Turkey for several things one of which being it's numerous gypsy population. So I'd venture to guess you could find scores of people swearing the battle took place, better yet Emp. Valens was killed, on the spot that you are standing on right now. For a wee bit of consideration of course 😉PS: and political correctness hasn't come to Turkey yet ;D
Just curious, I am going to have to get down there one of these days. There is too much history in Turkey to not visit. If nothing else I want to see the Hagia Sophia and the traditional location where Leander supposedly swam the Bosporus.As to wikipedia and its reliability I have posted about that elsewhere on the site in a discussion about academic research on the net.
4. Wikipedia is not a good resource, especially for academic work. It is useful to point you in the right direction when tackling an unfamiliar subject but take anything you read on Wikipedia with a grain of salt. Any idiot with a grudge can manipulate the information on Wikipedia. This makes it a bad source because there is nothing to stop anyone from any mischief. For example, I once made the ninth century Frankish king Charlemagne a black man and it stayed up for two weeks before anybody caught it. If I can do this, so can anybody else. Wikipedia is unreliable and if you use it as a source in academic work you will at a minimum be penalized and at worst fail the assignment.
The whole piece is here: Ten Tips for Conducting Historical Research on the Internet That being said, Wikipedia can usually be counted on to point you in the right direction for serious research and to give a general feel for a topic.
Just curious, I am going to have to get down there one of these days. There is too much history in Turkey to not visit. If nothing else I want to see the Hagia Sophia and the traditional location where Leander supposedly swam the Bosporus.
BTW, I found this in the governorship of Istanbul's web page bout Leander;Western sources have erroneously attributed the tower to Leander, who drowned as he was trying to swim to his lover Hero. Actually, this mythological story took place in the Dardanelles. http://english.istanbul.gov.tr/Default.aspx?pid=438But for a military hostorian the Dardanelles is probably a must see also, with the battle of Gallipoli having taken place there. Edirne is also within 2 hour drive you could cisit Adrianople and Gallipoli in one weekend comfortably.
As you can see it's like a safety valve that protects the straits from the west. As far as I know there are some remains of Adrian's walls there also.
