Home › Forums › General History Chat › Warning–trap ahead. Date of British Empire beginning?
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March 3, 2010 at 11:10 pm #1965
willyD
ParticipantWhat date would you choose to mark the beginning of the British Empire–de jure.
March 3, 2010 at 11:24 pm #19041Wally
Participant–de jure; I'd say the Acts of Union effective 01-May-1707.
March 3, 2010 at 11:27 pm #19042DonaldBaker
Participant1588 when the Brits defeated the Spanish Armada.
March 3, 2010 at 11:31 pm #19043Wally
Participant1588 when the Brits defeated the Spanish Armada.
--de facto
March 3, 2010 at 11:41 pm #19044DonaldBaker
Participant1588 when the Brits defeated the Spanish Armada.
--de facto
Ah yes, I see. 1578 then when Humphrey Gilbert was given a patent to discover new lands in the New World. Of course Gilbert failed, but his half-brother Walter Raleigh made good. And yes I got this from Wikipedia. 🙂
March 4, 2010 at 12:19 am #19045skiguy
Moderatordefine empire
March 4, 2010 at 12:26 am #19046willyD
ParticipantAHA–a scholar!define Empire--excellent question
March 4, 2010 at 12:28 am #19047willyD
ParticipantIf Britain was an Empire prior to Queen Victoria, can we name a British Emperor?I did say de jure
March 4, 2010 at 12:31 am #19048Phidippides
KeymasterNot sure, but I'll say October 14, 1066, with the presumption that depending on the way things are defined, mine will be the right answer. ;D
March 4, 2010 at 1:31 am #19049DonaldBaker
ParticipantNot sure, but I'll say October 14, 1066, with the presumption that depending on the way things are defined, mine will be the right answer. ;D
I can see this.
March 4, 2010 at 1:39 am #19050willyD
ParticipantTry this definition: A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.Now in a de jure sense would I be correct in saying that Great Britain was never an Empire until Victoria became Empress of India. She was always called Queen Victoria at home. It seems reasonable to me that the be an Empire you needed an Emperor--like Japan, Germany, Austria-Hungry, France (under Napoleon), or even Brazil under Don Pedro. Is this argument acceptable or I am playing word games with de facto and de jure--what say you?
March 4, 2010 at 1:45 am #19051skiguy
Moderatorwilly, I agree with you're first part, but I don't think there has to be an “emperor” or just one ruler to make it an empire. I think an empire is when one nation rules or is dominant over many.
March 4, 2010 at 2:17 am #19052willyD
ParticipantI do believe that you are correct. However–consider this. A person arrives at the border of an Empireand asks to see the Emperor. The Homeland Security guard might be nonplussed as would the personasking the question. What answer would you give the person?Is America a de facto Empire?
March 4, 2010 at 5:34 am #19053Wally
Participant... guard might be nonplussed as would the personasking the question. What answer would you give the person?....
No one sees the great Oz! [unless they have a small dog and are with a lion, scarecrow, and tin woodsman ;D]
March 4, 2010 at 5:57 am #19054willyD
ParticipantOf course!I hated the movie
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