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And they believe him! That's the thing. The recent New York Times study of T.P.ers reported that party members are “better educated” than most Americans. But educated in what? Clearly, they?or at least a significant, influential portion of them?are utterly uneducated in history. One can get a college degree without taking a single class in world history and thus still be ripe for the idiot distortions of a Glenn Beck.Most people with a basic grounding in history find Tea Party ignorance something to laugh about, certainly not something to take seriously. But I would argue that history demonstrates that historical ignorance is dangerous and that it can have tragic consequences, however laughable it may initially seem. And thus the media, liberals, and others are misguided in laughing it off. And educated conservatives are irresponsible in staying silent in the face of these distortions.coda: I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak--I do know his face. This is a nonpolitical post.
coda: I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak–I do know his face. This is a non political post.
Not sure how that could have been MORE political... at any rate... I disagree, but again, since this is a history site and not a political site I will leave my comments to myself.Funny.. I have tried my entire life to keep my political views as much as possible away from my historical views, but everywhere I go to look for educational and enlightening discussion on historical subjects I seem to find the same old thing... It sort of angers me and quite honestly, usually ends up with me not returning...Hoping that is not the case here... so far I have enjoyed it...
for the idiot distortions of a Glenn Beck.
I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak
Then how do you know he distorts things? ???
coda: I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak--I do know his face. This is a non political post.
Not sure how that could have been MORE political... at any rate... I disagree, but again, since this is a history site and not a political site I will leave my comments to myself.Funny.. I have tried my entire life to keep my political views as much as possible away from my historical views, but everywhere I go to look for educational and enlightening discussion on historical subjects I seem to find the same old thing... It sort of angers me and quite honestly, usually ends up with me not returning...Hoping that is not the case here... so far I have enjoyed it...
This is NOT a political board by any means. This is an academic board where serious discussion on serious historical topics is made. So Notch don't worry, Phid and I keep an eye on trolling posts. 🙂
for the idiot distortions of a Glenn Beck.
I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak
Then how do you know he distorts things? ???
The first part of the post was a quote--I blundered as when I read it I saw I had not set it off with quotes.
coda: I know nothing of Glenn Beck and have never heard him speak--I do know his face. This is a non political post.
Not sure how that could have been MORE political... at any rate... I disagree, but again, since this is a history site and not a political site I will leave my comments to myself.Funny.. I have tried my entire life to keep my political views as much as possible away from my historical views, but everywhere I go to look for educational and enlightening discussion on historical subjects I seem to find the same old thing... It sort of angers me and quite honestly, usually ends up with me not returning...Hoping that is not the case here... so far I have enjoyed it...
This is NOT a political board by any means. This is an academic board where serious discussion on serious historical topics is made. So Notch don't worry, Phid and I keep an eye on trolling posts. 🙂
This was an historical post dealing with the deplorable state of historical knowledge. It was prompted by astory wherein a lady believed the president was a Communist, but when pressed said that "Progressive" was a code word for Communist. It was not meant to be political and I was not using irony to escape scrutiny. Ihad expected an answer dealing with the question posed --historical ignorance permits words to be used in an Orwellian fashion--rather than being whisked away to the cornfield of irrelevance and chided.
This was an historical post dealing with the deplorable state of historical knowledge. It was prompted by astory wherein a lady believed the president was a Communist, but when pressed said that "Progressive" was a code word for Communist. It was not meant to be political and I was not using irony to escape scrutiny. Ihad expected an answer dealing with the question posed --historical ignorance permits words to be used in an Orwellian fashion--rather than being whisked away to the cornfield of irrelevance and chided.
I do think your post was political, even if you did not intend it to be so. In order to engage you in discussion about the "deplorable state of historical knowledge", we'd first have to buy into your premise. That is, we would have to take a political interpretation - that Tea Partiers are ignorant when it comes to history - even though this not only has not been established, but has an uncanny resemblance to something like what Keith Olbermann would say.
Funny.. I have tried my entire life to keep my political views as much as possible away from my historical views, but everywhere I go to look for educational and enlightening discussion on historical subjects I seem to find the same old thing... It sort of angers me and quite honestly, usually ends up with me not returning...Hoping that is not the case here... so far I have enjoyed it...
As all of us know, politics and history intersect, and so sometimes it's impossible to keep politics completely at bay. I do think there is some leeway here on this forum (as long as it's in some sort of historical context) but for issues that are too non-historical (or altogether off topic) we have the "Roman Senate Chamber". I set it up for this very purpose, and I sometimes move off topic threads there.I don't think that we have any trolls on the forum at this point, so things usually work out anyway. If things do get out of hand, I have Donnie as my "Commander Riker" to put the smack down. (NB: I almost forgot to mention that Donnie's forum, Writers of History, has an area for general and political boards where people go sometimes for miscellaneous discussions)
Historical ignorance has more to do with the fact that teaching history is not a high profile job in public schools and it is not seen as a “real” discipline by many school boards. How many of us here have seen the football coach teaching history because he had to teach at least one class as well as being the coach? The average person's ignorance about history generally reflects the emphasis placed on learning it in school in my opinion. To talk politics I would bet that the general level of historical ignorance has little to do with political affilitian or ideological leaning. This same ignorance allows talking heads like Glenn Beck, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, etc. to use and abuse history as they see fit because they can make the basic assumption that their audience doesnt know any better anyway.
Ok, I didn't actually mean to offend or suggest that this topic was not worth discussing, because it is. I moved it here because I feel that a political rush would come on by answering it. So here goes.
It was prompted by a story wherein a lady believed the president was a Communist, but when pressed said that "Progressive" was a code word for Communist.
My take is that a) there is no evidence that I have seen which shows that Tea Partiers are uneducated, or less educated, in history, and b) knowing only the facts above, I think that interpreting "Progressive" for "Communist" is entirely acceptable. As for this latter point, I think people sometimes speak colloquially, sometimes they speak technically, and most often somewhere in between. Do I think that the lady thought that "Progressive" meant that the person is a card-carrying member of the Communist Party and carries a sickle and hammer in his backpack? No, I don't. The lady probably meant that people who are "progressive" want greater government control over the means of production, which I think is true (Exhibit A: healthcare). So anyway, this is my take on the premise of the question. Other thoughts?
The left run from suggestions they are socialist or communist like a hillbilly runs from bathwater. That is why they get upset and go into attack mode when it is suggested that they are in fact socialists and have communist tendencies. The constant harping about what is fair and what is not prove it. Even Obama slipped up the other day and essentially said that there is a point at which people have “made enough money” although he did not say what that amount was. I assume it is over $5 million since that is what he made last year according to his income tax return. That last link is just a little bit of transparency
Re: Why we should study History with our tea or coffee.? Reply #10 on: Today at 06:07:42 AM ?QuoteThe left run from suggestions they are socialist or communist like a hillbilly runs from bathwater. That is why they get upset and go into attack mode when it is suggested that they are in fact socialists and have communist tendencies. The constant harping about what is fair and what is not prove it. Even Obama slipped up the other day and essentially said that there is a point at which people have "made enough money" although eh did not say what that amount was. I assume it is over $5 million since that is what he made last year according to his income tax return. That last link is just a little bit of transparencIt has been an interesting experience exchanging posts in your forum, but being a card carrying Liberal, anda "progressive" I am no doubt guilty as charged. The members of this forum were quite open about theirpolitical stance as was I. It was my hope that I could learn and perhaps even contribute a bit so as to haveactual dialogues with people to the right of me on the political spectrum. I now see that that was not arealistic goal and that it is time to depart. I wish to thank all of you with whom I have exchanged views and Ihave learned things both negative and positive. I am also appreciative that our correspondence neverdescended to personal snapping or clawing and that despite some serious philosophical differences, we actedas gentlemen. This is especially important these days when so much acrimony and invective is thrownabout in arguments.I might make a parting suggestion which I trust you will agree is a good one. When a group is composed oflike minded people it tends to become routine, predictable and in some cases boring. I think you should solicit a member--perhaps a Liberal light--so as to get the view from the other side of the hill. There is no need to listen to him, but his presence and perhaps even his comments would cause you to pause and reflectupon the content of your posts. I shall always think of you as a group as a group of golden Syrian hamstersblissfully content in each others company, chewing seeds and uttering opinions well received and noddingin assent. In your world there is no need for dissent--you have unanimity of opinion.I wish you all well and thank you again for the experience. Please remove me from your membership listsin both forums.WillyD (Agoraomai)
I might make a parting suggestion which I trust you will agree is a good one. When a group is composed of like minded people it tends to become routine, predictable and in some cases boring. I think you should solicit a member--perhaps a Liberal light--so as to get the view from the other side of the hill. There is no need to listen to him, but his presence and perhaps even his comments would cause you to pause and reflect upon the content of your posts. WillyD (Agoraomai)
I thought that what role you were playing here. Certainly no one has tried to run you off. 🙁
It has been an interesting experience exchanging posts in your forum, but being a card carrying Liberal, and a “progressive” I am no doubt guilty as charged. The members of this forum were quite open about their political stance as was I. It was my hope that I could learn and perhaps even contribute a bit so as to have actual dialogues with people to the right of me on the political spectrum. I now see that that was not a realistic goal and that it is time to depart. I wish to thank all of you with whom I have exchanged views and I have learned things both negative and positive. I am also appreciative that our correspondence never descended to personal snapping or clawing and that despite some serious philosophical differences, we actedas gentlemen. This is especially important these days when so much acrimony and invective is thrownabout in arguments. I might make a parting suggestion which I trust you will agree is a good one. When a group is composed of like minded people it tends to become routine, predictable and in some cases boring. I think you should solicit a member--perhaps a Liberal light--so as to get the view from the other side of the hill. There is no need to listen to him, but his presence and perhaps even his comments would cause you to pause and reflect upon the content of your posts. I shall always think of you as a group as a group of golden Syrian hamsters blissfully content in each others company, chewing seeds and uttering opinions well received and nodding in assent. In your world there is no need for dissent--you have unanimity of opinion. I wish you all well and thank you again for the experience. Please remove me from your membership lists in both forums.WillyD (Agoraomai)
Willy, your participation here has been valued, and believe it or not it has been a nice change of pace. No, not everyone agrees with you politically here. Then again, how many people here are in exact agreement? Probably none, in my opinion. I think I have been at odds with pretty much everyone here at one point or another, and I think that's the nature of the world we live in. No one agrees with me on everything except for me...and future me might take issue with present me on certain issues.As a history forum, we are bound to get into political squabbles from time to time. I suppose the whole presence of a "Recent History" board invites this (though this wasn't the intention). I really started this forum because of my love of history; it could be a place where people could talk about something really cool they saw on the History channel, or ask a question about something they read, or help someone else to understand a historical issue. This is much easier to do in a pure and civil manner when talking about Roman engineering or medieval French politics than it is when discussing the Reagan presidency or historical communism. Perhaps I should allow people to speak politics and history as much as they want, and later move them if needed, rather than state that a topic is off-limit from the beginning. Perhaps this is what I should have done with this thread rather than to declare it political and therefore tainted right away.Obviously, I don't want you to leave. You are free to go if you want, of course, but I still find your contributions to be valuable to this forum. I suppose I can brainstorm with Donnie with a way of handling this issue on the forum and post our policy for people to see; that way, people wouldn't have rules imposed on them after-the-fact. While I can't really change the ideological make-up of this forum, I can try to protect the rights of minority voices so they are not quashed in the process.
Willy, you'd better stay !! Don't leave me alone, I know about what you can feel by experiencing it myself some times ago, but I do believe that even minority point of view is most valuable and not a waste of time at all.Blogging is source of satisfaction and, more, of disappointment but that's the reality of a "cyber" forum; as I wrote in one of my post: I'm sure that being debating altogether around some fine wines, whiskeys and cigars we would feel immeasurable satisfaction to exchange ideas. 🙂
