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PhidippidesKeymaster
I have heard about McDermott and he has a point. His arguments are clearly borrowing from J.G.A. Pocock’s The Machiavellian Moment where he argues that the Florentine Republic (Catholic of course) served as a political model for Jefferson and Madison. However, the ideas that formulated the synthesis which created the Declaration of Independence and later the Constitution, came from the Scotish Enlightenment (Berkeley) and of course John Locke (though many historians wish to efface him from the formula all together). Other influences were Lord Bolingbroke who received quite a large amount of affection by Jefferson and I have to toss in Montesquieu. Rousseau should not be forgotten entirely either. Locke covered the arguments of natural law quite well saying that moral law is paramount to the vitality of virtue and necessary for government to be efficacious. Natural law would fit more into Machiavelli’s world and the world of Thomas Hobbs. Of course Aquinas would have made a good Calvinist since he found Predestination and Providence to be complimentary aspects of the human condition. The synthesis could also include David Hume where human inquiry is involved, but this is much harder to prove. I think Calvinism and evangelicalism played a crucial role by the time of the Constitutional Convention, but perhaps not so much for the Declaration of Independence.
For constitutional arguments that led to the Declaration of Independence, see John Phillip Reid. He has a book on the Constitutional Arguments of the Revolution which basically proved that the colonists felt their charter remained in the hands of the king and that Parliament held no claim to them. Also, Reid argued that the colonists were still clinging to property rights instead of title rights as Parliament was so doing. In other words, the colonists viewed their rights rested in material possession (and so with the king who owned all of the land), whereas Pariament held the title of the sovereign via the Commons which "virtually" represented colonists 3000 miles away. Good stuff really....check him out.PhidippidesKeymasterIt is interesting that you shared that last quote of MA. No doubt that quote was referenced by many a Whig who wished to trace the commonwealthman/country ideology back to the Romans where civilized law and virtue supposedly began. I think it funny to view Marcus Aurelius as a Whig debating Tories in Parliament. 😀
Getting back to Plato, and the Symposium, what do you think of the story recounted by Socrates concerning the hermaphrodites or the Manwomen as he called them? Got to love how a Greek philosopher can draw from mythology to explain homosexuality! Elsewhere we see Socrates play the "mentor" to Timaeus thus proving where he stood on the issue.
My favorites include: The Apology, The Crito, The Republic, and The Symposium.PhidippidesKeymasterI can imagine that the Stoics owe a lot to Plato. I flipped through an old copy of Plato’s Symposium that I had read years back (a good read) and I can definitely see the similarities there – particularly Socrates’ resistance to temptation and to the inebriating effects of wine.
But I didn't mean to suggest that Marcus Aurelius had a particular connection to Hegel's philosophy. It was just that a quote or two of MA's sounded like it had Hegelian elements. For instance:
If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of Commonwealth.
PhidippidesKeymasterMarcus Aurelius is a good choice. I haven’t read Meditations, though I should do that sometime. I found some quotes from him, a few of which I put below. They sound like a combination of Plato, Proverbs, and perhaps Hegel.
Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today inquisitive, ungrateful, violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All these things have come upon them through ignorance of real good and ill.
Whatever is in any way beautiful hath its source of beauty in itself, and is complete in itself; praise forms no part of it. So it is none the worse nor the better for being praised.
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