There is a new study out--unhappily I caught it quickly and cannot cite the source--which concludedthat the key ingredient in the making of good "teachers" was akin to voodoo! If i recall, it seemedto suggest that there was an X factor wherein some people have it and others do not. Disturbingly, italso allowed that this cannot be taught! Great teachers can make even dull books sing and weavea mesmerizing story from dull and dusty facts. I was lucky enough to have some and perhaps you did too--my first was Amelia Adolph--sophomore year--"wonder woman and Circe combined".Think of it as an ability to dance well or Calvin's concept of "the elect". If you run across the articleplease let me know as I have mentally scourged myself for not tarrying to make a note.The article was in Newsweek--Google teachers and voodoo and you should get it
Look guys, I like to read well written History just like you, but when you are talking about eponymous historical markers in ancient Greece, Gnosticism, bureaucratic practices in the Confederacy, or similar topics, it's going to be "dry." Much of historical research is mundane, monotonous, and technical. It just is. Now if you are dealing with the Battle of the Bulge or Custer's Last Stand, then you are probably going to get a little better prose because the characters and events are exciting by nature.
I am sure you do and it is true that some subjects are just dull. However, you have to admit that a good author can make the least exciting subjects leap from the pages of the text and ensnare you.Here are four that might be considered dull at first glance:1. Michael Ventris et.al. and the Linear B solution.2. German chemical brilliance, guano and the nitrates shortage.3. Philology and the Etruscans.4. The meaning of the Gospel of ThomasI do not know what historical (sic) books you cut your teeth on, but these were given to me bymy father, a well read and educated man whose favorite subject was baseball!Goodbye to All That, All Quiet on The Western Front, From Here to Eternity, Beach Red.You can see how I was spoiled at an early age.WillyD
I was in Montevideo in the 1980's and the kiosks were full of postcards of the ship and the captain. Onegot the impression that is one of the greatest historical events in that nation's history. Everybody knewall about it and all were willing to give opinions or recall the event through the stories they had heard.Interesting note: The presidential palace is called the Pink House, as I recall and was guarded by a singleyoung soldier standing outside the door. I asked him in horrible Spanish whether I could take a picture and he replied in beautiful unaccented English--"sure Mister--go ahead" and then he smiled--beautiful.
Quote from: DonaldBaker on Yesterday at 08:25:11 PMQuoteHow would one describe the coronation of Charlemagne in 800?After a brief summary of the actual ceremony, one would then begin to describe the significance of the event and how it reshaped the political and ecclesiastical boundaries of Western Europe.At which point the reader falls asleep and drools on their book. Don, I have said it before and will say it again, it is possible to write good rigorous history without making the readers heart stop through the boring way it is presented. You are a minority in that you apparently enjoy dry books, 80-90% of the rest of the world does not and that is why students hate history class.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThere is a new study out--unhappily I caught it quickly and cannot cite the source--which concludedthat the key ingredient in the making of good "teachers" was akin to voodoo! If i recall, it seemedto suggest that there was an X factor wherein some people have it and others do not. Disturbingly, italso allowed that this cannot be taught! Great teachers can make even dull books sing and weavea mesmerizing story from dull and dusty facts. I was lucky enough to have some and perhaps you did too--my first was Amelia Adolph--sophomore year--"wonder woman and Circe combined".Think of it as an ability to dance well or Calvin's concept of "the elect". If you run across the articleplease let me know as I have mentally scourged myself for not tarrying to make a note.
The key words are ?all the support and assistance in its power?. When they signed the pact in August of 1939 the British knew full well they could provide little or nothing in the way of military support. It was hoped that concluding a treaty would cause Hitler to back down since it was widely regarded at the time that British intervention because of Belgium in 1914 had caused the failure of the Schleiffen plan and they hoped for something similar in this case. The treaty was a line in the sand if you will rather than presaging some expectation of actual military assistance. I do not see how the claim that Poland was betrayed can be substantiated unless you assume that Poles were na?ve enough o think that several British divisions could be magically teleported to Poland in the case of attack. The Baltic was essentially a German lake for most of the war anyway.In the end it is academic because the treaty did not hold Hitler back and guaranteed Britain?s involvement in the war. In one sense the treaty can be considered a failure because it did not achieve what it intended, stopping Hitler....My curiosity was aroused because it seems apparent that the British were hoping that Poland would cometo some kind of agreement with Germany over Danzig and the Corridor which would satisfy HerrHitler and avoid a war. The Poles proved to be quite stubborn and unreasonable. My wife is Russian and Polish and I have a deep understanding of "stubborn" Neither the Poles or the British understood that the Austrian gentleman was convinced that destiny was guiding his hand and that he was absolutelydetermined to go to war in the east-- no "agreement" would be acceptable. Once Hitler had seenthe actions of the western powers over the debacle of the Czechoslovakian guarantees, his appetitehad been whetted to the point where only a conflict would satisfy him.In any case my understanding of this question has been improved. Thank you for your assistance.
OH I'm off to Google in the evening time while my wife watches TVIf the stuff is good I promise this--its the last of me she'll see(sung to the tune of an old IRA song The Merry ............ (forgot).
Coronation in 800ADWell the mechanics might be generally agreed upon, but we could spend years discussing the real meaning of the event. It is the same for many seminal events in history. Take one that almost everyone agrees upon--the outbreak of WWII. A bit closer to our time than 800 AD and lots of research material available. The British call it Hitler's War so you know where they are coming from-BUT__it is not really that simple.Here is a short list of various historians who have different views of the subject and whose use of narrative vs. factually based prose is evident.Langer and GleasonNuremburg Tribunal documentsCharles TansillHenry L. RobertsL,B. NamierHerman Mau and Helmut KrausnickMaurice BaumontAJP TaylorHR Trevor-RoperAdolph HitlerWarning: Reading these guys may lead to headaches, nausea, sleeplessness and itching as they all havediffering points of view, they all have varying abilities as writers, some suffer from poor translation andothers just seem to be nasty people.
I don't think we are talking about the same "science." I'm not talking about "Laboratory History." I'm talking about employing scientific method to historical approach. Historians are investigators who must use controlled approaches in their research. Serious academic scholars must then translate their controlled approach into a narrative via monograph, essay, or journal entry. I have no qualms about making the narrative flow, but the quality of historical research is not dependent on the quality of the prose. One can be an excellent historian while also being a mundane boring writer. For example: If I say "Napoleon was the chief architect of the last phase of the French Revolution" I would be historically accurate. Nothing in that statement is flashy or "over the top." However, you would prefer I say something like "Napoleon forcefully reshaped the French Revolution into his own ambitious vision." Both sentences say basically the same thing, but one is overly charged with qualifying adjectives that may accidentally place a negative connotation onto Napoleon that shouldn't be there. One too many adjectives can undo the objective science of the narrative itself....a damage not easily undone.Got it--History is not a science, but uses some scientific methods and approaches to historicalquestions--got it!
Of course facts excite me, but there are facts and there are facts. If you told me that Jefferson hadhis eyes separated by 2.1 inches the fact leaves me cold. If you told me that he believed that in a true democracy the ability of a minority to frustrate the desires of the majority was little different than a return to the rule of force and akin to despotism--than that is a fact that would cause me to leap from my chair and scream--right on Tom!The table of elements is quite factual and some may achieve spiritual relief from contemplating it--not me. E=MC2 can elicit cries of joy from some--I pay homage and then yawn.It is not a question of embellishment, but of skill-- blending the facts of history with the art of conveying the story in a manner that entrances.Perhaps we are just wired in different manners--you inclined more toward the objective hard edgedscience side of History, while I am wed to a more old fashioned view that it is best taken through aliterary lens by an author who entertains as he informs. I read Gibbon for the joy of language as wellas his historical opinions. You are hard core--keep your powder dry and enjoy your reading.I do find it compelling that in no University are the History professors listed as working in the ScienceDepartment. Why is this?
Donald Baker:I rest my case.The gauntlet for the art-science debate was arguably set by Leopold von Ranke, the 19th Century historian who called for history to be written "as it essentially was". To accomplish this, the primary sources had to be speak for themselves and the historian's role was in objectively sewing the patches of the primary source quilt together into a grand narrative. Bias, subjective judgement and the "art" of history would thus be removed and history became empirical, a science of man's past. The problems here are obvious. First, a historian, with his or her inherent interests, worldview, understandings and culture, is a subjective being. Different historians will derive different, even potentially conflicting meanings, from the same primary source. There may be too many primary sources available to the historian, forcing the historian to decide which ones are most useful for his or her purposes. Again this involves subjectively choice, based on interests or intent. Secondly, primary sources are not photons, molecules or metatarsels but the products of human beings who are partial, whose viewpoints are their own, who may have ulterior motives for putting pen to paper, and who are reliable not as CCTV cameras but by being themselves. This is not to say there are no facts in history because there are: the event/s called the French Revolution did start in 1789. But the grit of history - the hows and the whys - are teased out not empirically but critically, using judgement, skill and creativity and the product, though not necessarily a scientific truth, can offer poetic truth.WillyD
INDEED–Just finished her book on Capitalism–factual, concise, objective, well written and balanced–a joy to read. It is best read with a glass of red wine and an apple.
Wow–you are harsh. Very few people I knew or know would seriously consider “History” to be a"science". It is a social science at best along with sociology and political science. All of which usevarious techniques of the "pure" sciences, but not of which can validy claim to be scientific eitherin their methodologies or their conclusions. This is what I was taught, what I experienced andwhat I believed. Chemistry, mathematics, physics and biology may claim to rest under the aegis ofscience, but we poor worshippers of Clio have had to find other quarters. Von Ranke will always berevered, but he did not change the game.I am reading Robert Merry's A Country of Vast Designs which has lots of well researched facts, meetsthe normal definition of concise and appears to be objective. Reading it is difficult because his does not entertain me as he writes. This is important as I have always had a short attention span and I expectto be excited as well as informed by my author.