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My standing?Easy:Pay your taxes. If you cheat you are stealing from me.Best kind of tax--?? I was weaned on the progressive income tax and on the idea that those who can affordto pay a little more ought to do so. This idea no longer has wide support so I imagine I am in the minorityand some sort of regressive tax will be forthcoming.WillyD
Your opinion of “waste” may differ greatly from those of other taxpayers. We have no consensus as to justwhat the priorities are for spending tax dollars at any level--federal, state or local. People in Congress know how to budget. The point is that they do not have to nor is it always in the best interest of the nation that we do so. In times of crises we go into the red.Whether you pay your taxes happily or not is irrelevant. If you do not file or get caught cheating you could end up in jail--it is the law whether you like it or not. You might want to suggest that the government allow taxpayers to allot their income tax to particular expenditures. You might want to fund an orphanage inArkansas or buy Italian pistols for the army. Would this help?One final point. Our governments--federal, state and local, have decided that we do have an obligation to pay for the upkeep of the sick, the lazy, the criminals and the fools. In your name and with your money they are doing this every day providing food, shelter and medical care for those kinds of people. I really do notsee how you can escape the fact that there is a disconnect between what you want your government to do and what you would do were you the government. We cannot abandon these people and let them roam the streets starving, cold and ridden with disease--this is not Calcutta. What would your solution be if you were hired as a consultant and ordered to come up with a plan to break the cycle of dependence? I believe I mentioned previously that the county I live in spends every single dime gleaned from the real estate taxes on paying for Medicaid for county residents. There is no money for anything else. This isunsustainable as thew state is broke, the bridges are rusting, the roads go to potholes, teachers, firemenand police officers are being laid off and taxes are to be raised again--madness.So, as a consultant please tell those that hired you that it is critical that we come to some kind of agreementas to the spending priorities, keep trying to build bridges over the roiling waters of factionalism, and getour act together before the whole edifice crumbles. Taxes are the price we pay for freedom, security and a decent way of life. They are not wrong, illegal or the product of theft--these are just dumb headed pronouncements by screechers and howlers.
Excellent–I always liked snapping turtles rather than sheep. Agitating for reform is a very good thing, but in America the “sweet spot” is the moderate middle who is easily frightened by radicals at either end of the political spectrum. When you use phrases like “lanyard” and “whiff of grapeshot” they may not know just exactly what you mean, but they sense that this may not be good. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that the American Revolution was supported by about one third of the people with the remainder being either Tories or indifferent.Alternate quote: It is the duty of every American to pay every dime of his legally imposed taxes.Here is a coda: If you can afford it, you might even write a check to the government to help in reducing the national debt. Would this not be for the general welfare of the national and "patriotic" thing to do?Now I shall check the blog you suggested.
Scout:I was never good in math so bear with me. I understand the theory behind cutting taxes, increased businessactivity and the creation of jobs resulting in more revenue for the government. It is just difficult for meto get my mind around the idea that owing so much to so many can be mitigated by reducing the government's revenue stream in the short run. In the long run, you may well be right, but as a wit has said, "in the long run we are all dead." I enjoy you posts and your candor and I agree that the real effort is how to escape fromthis pit we have dug for ourselves. If your goal is to shrink government, I fear that you are going to be verydisappointed in the years to come. We are well on our way to adopting the European solution to domestictranquility and that means more government, not less. Reagan tried to starve the beast and failed. Bush expanded it despite his initial desires to eliminate whole departments. You and I will be recycled atomsin new born stars before the government shrinks.Now the lanyard is a tempting option, but we all know the perils if one chooses that route. The man onhorseback is waiting in the wings with his propane torch for the Constitution and his knout for the likes of us.Enjoy the rest of the day--I go to tar the roof, you might like to re-read 1984 again. Would you like to be Winston or O'Brian?
But then–whither Capitalism? Will all want the government to do more of the same? Has a precedent been set?
1) The IRS will remain.2) The prebate will be ripe for gaming ala earned income credit.3) Revolution will proceed with ballots for quite awhile before bullets replace them.4) Our military isn?t the typical large professional standing army that the founders feared? not yet. (More likely we need to fear any reactionary action if the volunteer effort, that was lately proposed by the President comes to pass.)5) He who earns the money should not have the gov?t telling him what to spend it on. (Yes I agree better to spend domestically if we can but we also need to make the money go as far as possible? the gov?t need to get out of several businesses to let them become competitive again.)6) Ron Paul may be unelectable but those that are may need to take a page or two from is book.I agree on all counts.Hey! Let us not make up history--the private sector came crawling to the government to save them as theymade some bad business decisions, were unequipped to deal with competition and buffeted by the fiscalstorm that they helped produce. They got bailouts, my neighbor did not! Where is the bailout window forordinary people? You can argue that the President acted wisely in saving corporations that were too big to fail, but the stench of the act will be around for a long time. Unless I was asleep that day in class, one of theprimary assumptions about a healthy free enterprise system is that companies that make bad decisions getto fail and go out of business--creative destruction--good for all of us. Was this lesson a lie?
Scout:The point I was making about spending had nothing to do with outrage--I am hardly a leveler. The point I was trying to make is that there is no direct evidence that a tax cut will automatically lead to people spending theiradditional money on things that would benefit the economy. If you would read the referenced Stockman article (google--Stockman and Trickle Down Economics), I would not be typing this post as he would argue the case much better than I can. You may not agree with all he says, but he sure has street cred.There is also no outrage against people spending given money on drugs or prostitutes. Come on Scout--we are, I assume, men of the world and know that rational behavior is not always observed whether one be the former governor of New York, a former President of the US from Arkansas or the mayor of Washington D.C. .One final point. We have had massive unemployment here--second poorest city in the USA and now the state is broke too. I know a family where both mom and dad worked, were laid off and now with three kids worka total of five less- than- full- time jobs and still cannot keep their heads above water. The jobs pay poorly,require a transportation solution that defies imagination and were it not for food stamps and subsidizedhousing, they would be on welfare. If they choose to get a six pack of Rolling Rock and a quart of Kesslers to numb the pain, am I going to begrudge them their little pleasure--hardly. The fact that alcohol is legal andsome drugs are not is merely a cultural decision. Prostitution and mind altering substances, like taxes will always be with us under any system of government except perhaps in Mao's China which did finally find a way to stop the opium use among the toiling masses.
If what I described is the FAIR TAx–so be it and I cannot tell you whether an adoption of this would increase or decrease the number of people who regularly depend upon government transfer payments to defray or to assistin the defraying the cost of living. I have no data on this at all. I do know that if this program wereabolished the IRS would , in theory, be eliminated and that would be a very very good thing.I agree that gridlock is here to stay and as I see it there must be a monumental crisis facing us that will convince us that government in its present form can no longer perform the duties assigned to it. TheDeclaration of independence says that it our right as THE PEOPLE to alter or abolish a government that failsto to do so and under certain circumstances informs us that it is our duty. If you think an establishedgovernment, ensconced and with a huge standing army is going to just roll over because the people are upsetabout things, I suggest you are very wrong. Sometimes the only way you overthrow a government is by violent means--American Revolution, Mexican revolution, French Revolution, Russian Revolution plus many many more.I too do not necessarily advocate it, but it remains a valid and legal option in our quiver along with thedocument that tells our young people that patriotism is love of country, not love of government and the truepatriot is always vocal when the government is seen as following the wrong path. Dissent is as Americanas chicken fried steak.Taxes--ugh--I hate talking about them, but I pay them as it is my duty.We are in a pickle--we owe too much money. We must cut spending. It is a sine qua non for future solvency. We must pay off our credit cards and our loans that the government has used to finance two wars,a new drug program and the bailouts. The spending must stop. When it comes to raising taxes there isa problem. I referred to David Stockman's admission about Reagan's tax cuts being bogus along with trickle down economics and all the rest. Just google "David Stockman and Trickle Down Economics" for a good review of the subject from an insiders point of view. He writes better than I do, he is better informed and he was there. Go ahead--check it out--it is very good reading--do it now!Finally--if we could be sure that a tax cut would be used to create jobs rather than buying a chalet in the south of France or a new Mercedes for the youngest child, I might agree. I find it difficult to agree thatall true patriots will take their new income and rush to hire people at a living wage, open new businesses and build factories so that we are a producer of goods again rather than on the road to being a hollow huskdependent upon hard working Asians to fund our adventures at home and abroad.Speaking of abroad and cutting taxes!Ron Paul spoke recently and enraged many by telling the Conservatives that they loved Empire--there are 700 bases abroad and I understand there a seven carrier groups. He is an interesting person and sayswhatever he wants because he knows he will never be elected president. I bet he sleeps well at night.
Scout:We live in good times. At one time, not too long ago, the Smith Act would have us jailed for advocating and at one point even discussing or professing to believe in the violent overthrow of the government.Jefferson would be pleased that that law was held to be unconstitutional, although it might still be on the books!Logjams are eliminated by the use of explosives when all else fails--interesting.
When the Vat comes the best of all possible worlds would have it supplant ALL other taxes, fees excepted.Under this scenario, the end user just adds 25 percent to the cost of the item and pays. There will be no income tax, no property tax, no capital gains tax--nada, nil, guhor rien, niente nichts. There will have to be some mechanism that exempts old geezers, certain items, perhaps food as you suggested, people below acertain dollar minimum (perhaps a rebate check). Remission of monies to the states would seem to be quite simple.Just set up a formula whereby if New York paid in X dollars, the Feds would slice out their portion Y andremit the remainder Z to the states. States with big populations or big spenders get more--North Dakota gets less. The huge flaw in the pipe dream is that it begs for the rise of a barter or black market economy which,here in upstate New York, is already alive and well and of great concern to the local tax gatherers.Let us wait and see what happens--as we are broke I am vitally interested.As for your view that cutting taxes is some sure fire way to jump start the economy, bring about thecreation of a large number of living wage jobs and restore our economic engine to full potency, I remain unconvinced. Here in the rust belt trickle down economics essentially gave us little and we still rememberDavid Stockman's comments with no small degree of chagrin. I live four miles from Lackawanna, New York and it is a scar upon the earth because of our economic shortsightedness.Guten Abend Herr soldat scout
Prior to 1453 there was a great deal of contact and commerce between Constantinople and the westespecially through the Italian cities of Genoa and Venice. The knowledge of Greek culture and the languageitself was known in many areas of Europe as many Greek speaking people (Koine, not Attic of course) fledto the welcoming cities of Europe. I think the point is that many left just prior to and after 1453 swelling the ranks of the expats and bringing with them many of the cultural treasures of the Classical age of Greece and Rome. By this time the city was but a barren husk having been looted by the Venetians and other fellow Christians. The gradual spread of the ability to read classical (Attic) Greek was a tribute to the generations ofscholars who had kept the knowledge alive since Koine had begun to replace the language of Athens in thekingdoms that were formed upon the death of Alexander the Great in 323 BCE. It is no coincidence thatwhen Caesar got to Alexandria he was able to speak to Cleopatra in Greek as educated people of his classhad both languages under their belts. Cleo, I believe,spoke five languages and had a tighter belt.
Scout:I really enjoyed your tour d 'horizon concerning our plight and options to spare our grandchildren a life ofreduced circumstances. In my opinion any rational plan to raise revenue must be designed with a similarplan to reduce outlays. Unless this is done all our efforts will come to naught and the trough will still beempty. There is a pie chart for federal revenue available and at some other time you may decide to delveinto just where you think cuts can be made.For this post, your analysis was most impressive on both the positive and negative aspects of the various options.For a whole host of reasons which I choose not to discuss, many Americans have adopted the view that taxesare some kind of infernal torture with which they must pay, but about which the may complain. This is applicable to state, local and federal taxes--all of them. As far as I know there has never been a referendumnor a consensus as to just what services the People expect from their various levels of government, thepriorities among these services and the amount the People are willing to pay for them. Normally a hugecacophony and sturm und drang results from discussions of these subjects which reveals that we havebecome a nation of factions finding it increasingly difficult to find common ground.My guess is, that given all the factors you covered, that we should prepare ourselves for the coming of some sort of VAT in the 25 percent range with fine print excluding certain items and/or annual refunds forpeople below certain income levels. This option has been around a long time and has many benefits for the government with which I am sure you are familiar. If you are a tax lawyer, you may want to start screaming now. When this was being discussed years ago, the Treasury Department had a power point presentationwhich suggested that if a VAT was implemented all other taxes would be redundant. Fees were not considered taxes. The presentation also showed that when you added up all you pay now in taxes hidden and otherwise at all levels, a 16 percent ( believe that was the proposed figure at the time) would be less thanthe average citizen paid under our present system. Recognizing that all bureaucrats lie and that statisticians are essentially tools of tools, the numbers in that proposal were still interesting.So we shall see what the wise men proffer. Do you know what the greatest attraction of a VAT is to me?Those that consume more pay more and nobody has to worry about the arrival of spring and calculatinghow many lies you might get away with this year.Nice job an the post--always a pleasure to read them.
Vulture 6–excellent post–concise, complete and a pleasure to read–thank you.WillyDP.S. There is a thesis floating bout that the key to ALL of Hitler's actions was that he was, at heart, alazy bohemian artist. I do not remember to book that posited this, but I do recall that at the time itmade a lot of sense. I was always open to theories that countered Alan Bullock.
