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Don't know where to start here. First of all, I did not know until recently that Ireland was actually two countries, Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, and the Republic of Ireland.Why are they not united? Can they be united? How much say does Great Britain have in keeping them separate?Hopefully this thread will grow into a discussion on the Troubles too. (is/was Sinn Fein or the IRA terrorists?)
Is this division due to religion? I remember, especially during the 1970's, the IRA causing much havoc throughout Ireland & England.
Or it could be said the Brits caused much havoc throughout Northern Ireland. (1972, Bloody Sunday for example) Depends upon one's point of view.It is said to be mainly about religion, but I think it's more about freedom and independence. I want to study this much, much further...it's incredibly interesting.
Ski, I think the divide goes back hundreds of years and so there is no simple solution to it. The division, to my knowledge, has to do with why Britain did not want to give up control over Northern Ireland. I do not know why the UK did not give up power, but from what I recall my brother telling me they've been in power there some 400 years or so….it's not it's been a “temporary” occupation. I think that the religious overtones in fighting in Northern Ireland has more to do with the political/national associations with those religions rather than differences among theologies themselves. There are some good movies related to Irish history and/or the struggle, such as In the Name of the Father, The Boxer, Michael Collins. I'm afraid I don't know enough about Irish history to give detailed information off the top of my head about the history of Ireland.
Going back so far is what makes it interesting. Didn't Britain at one time have all of Ireland? How much sooner than before the late 19th century did the Irish desire independence?
I think that the religious overtones in fighting in Northern Ireland has more to do with the political/national associations with those religions
That sums it all up. It seems more secular in nature than religious.
Yes, I believe around the time of Michael Collins the UK had all of Ireland (early 20th Century). But don't quote me on that.
About 1166 we see Dermot MacMurrough ally himself with Henry II to get support to regain the throne of Ireland… the beginning of the problem. If (with Henry's help) he loses Henry is out little… if he wins Henry becomes overlord to all of Ireland under Dermot's rule.Having married off his daughter to the Norman Strongbow (Richard Fizgilbert de Clare; Earl of Pembroke), Dermot eventually kicks enough arse and takes enough names... aided by Robert de Barry as well to attain a foothold in his quest. When Strongbow finally gets involved (1170) it's more than just a fight to get Demot the throne... O'Connor offered it to him if he'd get the Normans to leave.No such luck; the Normans were to much in control to be banished and by 1171 when Dermot died, Strongbow appointed himself King of Leinster. Henry was a bit pissed with this and made a trip to the Emerald Isle to make sure Strongbow knew his place in the scheme of things. To keep his head and accomplishments in tact Sb deferred to Hank and all was well.In 1177 Henry named (2nd) son John Lord of Ireland... when John collects the throne of England he finally visits and offended the chieftains... from there all downhill.The religious issue is something the English build in, when, in their effort to subdue the native Catholics import Scottish Protestants and give them land. At first it was Irish (regardless of religion) vs English: land issue. As most of the favored folks were Protestant it sort of took that direction until today that's all it seems to be about.BTW, the independence issue is quite old. 1258 saw Brian O'Neill proclaimed Ard Ri ; 1260 saw his head shipped to Henry III. No more High King of Ireland. This tale goes on through the Act of Union (1800) and through various Risings over the years 'til today.
Wow, Wally, that's an excellent post. Thanks. Lot's of info and looks like you take it back to the beginnings….waaaay further than the Easter Risings. Have to process all this…but sure there'll be questions. 🙂Why did Britain want Ireland? Naval supremacy? Protection against invaders, like the Vikings? Arrogance? All of the above?
Why? Because it's there of course. 🙂
LOL. Yeah, that does seem to be the British way. 😀And all this does add a bit of excitement to the Six Nations Rugby Tournament. The Bears/Packers rivalry has nothing on this!
I have seen my future.This course is offered at Providence College:
HIS 464 The Northern Ireland Problem3 creditsA study of the Northern Ireland question from its originsin the 17th century to its current state in the 21stcentury. Particular emphasis is placed upon the political,social, economic, and religious components of theproblem in Northern Ireland, Eire, Great Britain, andthe United States.
PC is a Catholic university so maybe they'll take the correct side of the issue ;D (j/k)Am I related to Gerry Adams?
