Gulf of Tonkin Incident launched our involvement in Vietnam by design.  The assassination of the ArchDuke Francis Ferdinand was a catalyst to begin World War I, and the Molotov/Ribbentrop Pact paved the way for Germany to launch World War II.

I'd say WMD for the current Iraq war rates pretty high 

This has got to be close to the top.  I know that I was not convinced before the war.  Powells's presentation at the UN could have been put on by Goebbels it was so stage managed.  How about the start of the Arab-Israeli war of your choice.  they all pretty much boil down to the Arabs hate Israel and that is good enough reason for them to start a war.  Too bad the Arabs are poor fighters and the Israeli's tend to kick the snot out of them every time.  The recent Lebanon war is no exception, the Israeli's quit fighting because of domestic considerations, not because they lost on the field of battle.

quote author=skiguy link=topic=1093.msg7045#msg7045 date=1211896755]The only reason I can't say Iraq was contrived, was that for 10+ years prior to the invasion, nearly every administration and intelligence agency around the world thought Saddam had or was actively pursuing WMD's.The Arabs, particularly the Palestinians, have some valid reasons for hating Israel.Ahh, but look at the skimpy evidence put forward to support the WMD claim.  I would also argue that Saddam's regime was contained.  I thought so then and have seen nothing since to convince me that he was a threat, regional or otherwise.[

The only reason I can't say Iraq was contrived, was that for 10+ years prior to the invasion, nearly every administration and intelligence agency around the world thought Saddam had or was actively pursuing WMD's.The Arabs, particularly the Palestinians, have some valid reasons for hating Israel.

I will disagree with this, but I'm not going to get into it.  Suffice it to say, "Palestinian" is a modern contrivance that dates to the 1970's when the PLO successfully hoodwinked the world into believing they were somehow different than the Jordanians they actually are.

Thanks for pointing out the myth of Palestinian ethnicity.  Isnt it amazing how the Jordanians dont want them anymore either.  They have managed to alienate all their Arab bretheren as well as the west.  The Arab nations simply use them as a stick to beat Israel with.

Well, regardless of their ethnicity, the Arabs living in that area still have valid reason to be angry at some things Israel has done and in some of the ways the U.S. has responded (or not responded).And I have to disagree that Arab nations are only using them as a stick to beat Israel.  Probably the number one, or a big reason why the Western-Arab relations are tense is because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 

Are you then saying that the suicide bombing of civilians is justifiable?  Regardless of the validity of Arab claims agianst Israel, they have forfeited any Western support for their claims by their actions.  Israel occasionally kills civilians, but not as a matter of policy in the manner of Hezbullah, Islamic Jihad, or other so called Palestinian Freedom fighter groups.  the deliberate targeting of civilians for the purpose of instilling terror is wrong no matter how you attempt to semanticize it.  It was wrong when the allies and Axis did it in WWII, and it is still wrong today.

This is a facinatinating query.  What, indeed? I'd put my money on power – no, wait, shove my chips onto the money pile, with recognition for weapons manufactures.  In more recent times, it's all based on whale oil.

Let's say Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Taliban support you and your family while no one else is.  What if the only health care your family gets is being financed by Hezbollah? What would you do?  PLus, if you leave them or rat on them, they'll most likely kill you. We need to fight the terrorist idea and seperate those who have been duped by them from the actual terrorists. NOT doing this is a huge tactical error IMO.  Not realizing that Islam is their government AND religion is a big mistake as well.  So when we critisize Islam, we are critisizing everything about them. Who wouldn't be offended by that?  You have your media and community leaders telling you that Christians and the West are against you. You have no or very little education and don't know any better. Again, what would you think or do? Al Jazeera,though anti-American at times, is as valid a source of information as any other media.  Just like all other media sources, you have to do fact checks.  I don't know if the majority of Muslims are against terrorist ideology.  But I do know that a lot of Muslims do not support them or say this is part of their religion. You don't hear from these moderate Muslims because our media (from CBS to FOX) doesn't report it. It's just not big enough news I guess.  What about Turkey trying to revise Islam?  I only found that on one website.  To me, that's huge news and should have been all over the media.    What about Muslims helping Christians build a church in Iraq?  That was only reported on Bill Roggio's website and nowhere else other than some blogs.  What about the students in Iran who speak out against the sharia law and dress codes being imposed on them by the nutcase regime?  That takes a lot of guts, IMO. The hundreds you see chanting "death to America" on TV, that's still only a small minority compared to the worldwide population of Muslims.  All we hear about are the violent protests.  What about the non-violent protests we don't hear about?  They don't have the right to assemble?  Just because they protest against American foreign policy does not mean they want to kill us. I don't mean to keep critisizing Israel, I just call it as I see it. If Israel didn't build those blockades and made it difficult for the Arabs who live there to get to work or school, it's a big "what if" but maybe, just maybe, conditions would be better.  The Palestinians have been isolated.  Prime targets for terrorist influence, especially if no one's going in there with an alternative for them.  I'm not saying many Palestinians aren't a real threat, they are.  But some of Israel's actions are making them potential threats to the United States..prime candidates for terrorist recruitment, and that's what bothers me most.  And this "don't critisize Israel or you'll be labelled an anti-Semite" mentality in the US is just plain wrong.  I don't know what I'm going to do for a job after getting a degree, but if I am going to do anything with or write anything about US-Israel-Arab relations, I better grow a thick skin.Question:  Do you consider the insurgents in Iraq terrorists?  I don't.  There's a world of difference between terrorist organizations like al Qaeda who are bent on destroying America and citizens of Iraq who want us out of there.  Is planting a roadside bomb the same kind of terrorism as flying passenger airliners into the WTC?  No way!