I'm up to about the 4th century. Is it me, or is this time very confusing? Was the city of Rome NOT in the Latin League?About the only thing I get is it went from an Etruscan monarchy to an aristocratic government, then in a relatively short time, it changed to a true republic with plebes gaining more power. From what I've read, the plebes eventually gained equal power as the patriarchs (the Licinio-Sextian compromise of 367). Is this correct so far?Also, what historical records are we getting this information from? Is it only from the Annals? Is a lot of this legend, or is it actual history? Livy mentions stuff about this time period, but isn't he a few centuries later? I'm assuming there are no Roman historians around yet at this time. Side note: I did not realize how many Celtic invasions there were at this time in Roman history. Interesting. I'm assuming the Etruscans were allied with the Gauls?
The last Roman king…I think it was Tarquin the Proud…ruled I think around 600 B.C. You didn't mention the birth of the Republican form of government. I don't recall the early years of Rome all that well…I may have to check on them again.I think that the Celtic invasions don't refer to the Celts of Britain. If memory serves me correct there was a group called the Celts in northern Italy who lived there in the early days of Rome. I know...confusing.
That sounds correct about Tarquin. I didn't mention the birth of the Republic because it's kind of confusing as to when that was. Was it before the written costitution? I think the seven kings were mythological tales with some historical truth mixed in.About the Celtics, I didn't interpret it as they were different than the Celts of the British Isles, it's just that they were a larger kingdom at that time. It seems they ruled a large area north of Italy which included much of today's France and Germany. I imagine I will eventually be learning about how they were pushed backed and integrated into the Empire. Were the Gauls and Celtics the same people back then?
I'm up to about the 4th century. Is it me, or is this time very confusing? Was the city of Rome NOT in the Latin League?About the only thing I get is it went from an Etruscan monarchy to an aristocratic government, then in a relatively short time, it changed to a true republic with plebes gaining more power. From what I've read, the plebes eventually gained equal power as the patriarchs (the Licinio-Sextian compromise of 367). Is this correct so far?
To my knowledge, that sounds about right. The Roman Republic really only gets rocking around the 4th century B.C. when it begins to expand by defeating the Etruscans and the Samnites.
It is my understanding that most of the tales of Rome's founding and the establishment of Republic are about equal parts fact and fiction. It sounds better to have semi-mythical origins, especially when you are busy subjugating your neighbors. It makes success easier to stomach for the conquered if they think that it was ordained and makes the conquerors feel that they are just enacting the God's plan. We often forget the pivotal role that religion and superstition played in Greek and Roman times. This is especially so given the advances in science and philosophy they made. Mythic origins fed into the Roman perception that they were doing the right thing.
It is my understanding that most of the tales of Rome's founding and the establishment of Republic are about equal parts fact and fiction. It sounds better to have semi-mythical origins, especially when you are busy subjugating your neighbors. It makes success easier to stomach for the conquered if they think that it was ordained and makes the conquerors feel that they are just enacting the God's plan. We often forget the pivotal role that religion and superstition played in Greek and Roman times. This is especially so given the advances in science and philosophy they made. Mythic origins fed into the Roman perception that they were doing the right thing.
Very true; the Romans even thought that the gods would not support them if they engaged in an offensive war, so instead they came up with rationales which supported their (frequent) use of "defensive" wars, which were essentially pre-emptive wars. This boded quite well for them.
The Romans were an exceedingly pragmatic people. They came up with logic for some of their wars that would leave the best sophist's head spinning. Some of their logic sounds suspiciously like what was used to get us into Iraq. The important thing about Roman logic is not what it means to us though, it is that it satisfied the Roman need to be seen as only acting defensively, even if they were the only ones that thought so. A kind of solipsism, if you will. In the end, a people only really has to justify things to themselves, especially if they win, as the Romans did. the very fact of their success seemed to justify their actions by showing that they were favored by the gods.
About the Celtics, I didn't interpret it as they were different than the Celts of the British Isles, it's just that they were a larger kingdom at that time. It seems they ruled a large area north of Italy which included much of today's France and Germany. I imagine I will eventually be learning about how they were pushed backed and integrated into the Empire. Were the Gauls and Celtics the same people back then?
This is something I will have to check into now. I was just reading about how the city of Nimes in southern France (where the famous Pont du Gard aqueduct is located) was originally a Celtic city.
About the Celtics, I didn't interpret it as they were different than the Celts of the British Isles, it's just that they were a larger kingdom at that time. It seems they ruled a large area north of Italy which included much of today's France and Germany. I imagine I will eventually be learning about how they were pushed backed and integrated into the Empire. Were the Gauls and Celtics the same people back then?
This is something I will have to check into now. I was just reading about how the city of Nimes in southern France (where the famous Pont du Gard aqueduct is located) was originally a Celtic city.
The Celts certainly migrated. I think they originally came out of the limitless steppes of Russia like so many other peoples. There are many Celtic sites in southern Germany as well. They just eventually ended up in Ireland after being driven from the continent by subsequent waves of migration.
That may sound about right. I had read about them as being somewhere near the Scythians, which was actually western Asia. The Celts must therefore have been nomadic for many centuries.
I can think of about ten different ethnic groups that have come out of the Steppe only the settle elsewhere in Europe later. The Celts are one among many.
The Celts certainly migrated. I think they originally came out of the limitless steppes of Russia like so many other peoples. There are many Celtic sites in southern Germany as well. They just eventually ended up in Ireland after being driven from the continent by subsequent waves of migration.
That may sound about right. I had read about them as being somewhere near the Scythians, which was actually western Asia. The Celts must therefore have been nomadic for many centuries.
I can think of about ten different ethnic groups that have come out of the Steppe only the settle elsewhere in Europe later. The Celts are one among many.
The Celts did certainly migrate but they didn't end up in Ireland as a consequence of different waves of migrations. When we talk about these migrations, it's about the Indo-European people who might have lived in an area located between the Black sea and the Caspian sea. Among the different hypothesis (because no primary sources can confirm it so far) concerning these Indo-Europeans, few things about their culture can be determined with confidence according the reconstruction of their language from current Indo-European languages (from Irish to Sanskrit):- Around 3000 BC some of the people who spoke Indo-European language began to travel away from their place. - Some of them went west toward the Atlantic ocean and these are now known as the Celts, and they speak the Celtic languages: Gaelic, Welsh, Breton and Cornish. - Another group went east toward China, and these are now known as the Tocharians, though they speak Chinese now. - A little later, others travelled over the Black Sea toward the Mediterranean or south to Western Asia. Some of them settled in Italy, where Indo-European became Latin. Others settled in Greece, where Indo-European became Greek. Some went north, where Indo-European turned into German, Danish, Swedish, and English. - The people who stayed more or less where they were in the Balkans and Russia began to speak the Slavic and Baltic languages: Russian, Polish, Lithuanian. - Some went to Western Asia, where they spoke Hittite and Persian, and some went all the way south to India, where they spoke Sanskrit In India, the Indo-Europeans are usually called the Aryans. Scythians are among these people.- About the Celts, the historical Celts were diverse groups of tribal societies in Iron Age Europe. Proto-Celtic culture formed in the Early Iron Age in Central Europe (Hallstatt period, named for the site in present-day Austria). By the later Iron Age (La T?ne period), Celts had expanded over wide range of lands: as far west as Ireland and the Iberian Peninsula, as far east as Galatia (central Anatolia), and as far north as Scotland.