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Today we are celebrating the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. Throughout time several walls were erected to protect borders (e.g. Hadrian Wall), contain invaders (Great Wall of China), or separate communities (Berlin, the Iron Curtain, Mexico-USA, Israel).What do you think about the building of such walls throughout History?
Personally, I don't see any justification for modern walls like the ones between Mexico-USA or Israel. History has shown that no human border ever prevent to achieve the reason for their erection. Nor the Chinese, the Romans and Soviets could ever contain people to move freely, to invade or to migrate wherever they wanted.Walls look more like a kind of provocation than dissuasion.Not to talk about corruption, betrayal, violence or treachery these walls ignite.Why even with lessons from History, it keeps luring rulers ? 8)
....Why even with lessons from History, it keeps luring rulers ? 8)
Simple... the people ask for (or demand) it and / or it makes them appear to be addressing a real (or imagined) problem.
The people ?I didn't hear about any survey nor referendum about it.It's mainly a decision made by rulers.
Personally, I don't see any justification for modern walls like the ones between Mexico-USA or Israel. History has shown that no human border ever prevent to achieve the reason for their erection. Nor the Chinese, the Romans and Soviets could ever contain people to move freely, to invade or to migrate wherever they wanted.
I would argue that walls have generally served their purposes. Perhaps walls of absolute exclusion tend to fail, a la the one from Berlin. But others, such as the real or proposed one between the U.S. and Mexico, would be permeable; people would still be able to enter the country, but they could not enter just anywhere they pleased, or on just any terms. I think that makes a big difference.
I have a piece of the wall that weighs about 5 pounds. I was pen pals with a girl from West Berlin in high school who I have since lost contact with and she sent me the piece of the wall shortly after the wall fell. Incidentally, I am watching a pretty cool retrospective on the mauerfall as they call it Germany right now on the German channel RTL. They are interviewing people who were in some of the iconic images from 1989, pretty good show.
That's right. Almost forgot you're in Germany. Well that explains all the beer talk this weekend. ;DAgree with Phid. Hadrian's wall served it's purpose of controlling traffic...during Hadrian's reign anyway. The wall of China was only breeched by traitors I think too. That's how the Ming dynasty came into power. The most unnecessary walls are those in Northern Ireland, IMO. Ridiculous! >:(
Walls are only useless if they are not maintained. The town I live in has a wall around the old city and those walls allowed the town to withstand two sieges during the 30 Year's War. Of course, if walls are undefended they just become decorative.There have also been some pretty good studies that show the wall on the Mexican border does work. It doesn't stop all illegal traffic but slows the flood to a more manageable trickle. The wall in Israel along the West Bank works too. Yes, it divides land and creates enclaves but it has also done a lot to stop suicide bombers from entering Israel from the West Bank. If I was Palestinian I would be mad too, if I were Israeli I would love it.
About the Mexico-USA border, it's more an economic wall than an political one (twin-cities, maquiladoras) despite the NAFTA treaty…http://www.migrationinformation.org/special_mexico.cfm Hadrian and Antonine walls, Israel, Berlin wall, the Berm in Western Sahara and in more than 20 countries are separation walls or barriers constructed to limit the movement of people across a certain line or border, or to separate two populations.It's working for a time but it doesn't seem to last much.It looks more like a provocation triggering the reason why these barriers were built for. :-On the other hand, such walls wouldn't denote a kind of weakness from their builders ?
About the Mexico-USA border, it's more an economic wall than an political one (twin-cities, maquiladoras) despite the NAFTA treaty...
Conditions that far predate NAFTA.
....On the other hand, such walls wouldn't denote a kind of weakness from their builders ?
An interesting point... perhaps to show they are doing something (no matter how lame) about the problem (real or imagined).
Conditions that far predate NAFTA.
....When you compare with the Canada-USA border, members of NAFTA just like Mexico, don't you wonder why it's so different? ::)BTW Nafta was signed in 1994, while the mexico-US wall was upgrated after the 9/11 attacks...I have a doubt !! California, Texas: where do these states initially come from ? We might have a chance to meet while harvesting in California during our summer job? 😀 (talking about incentive from the US to "wetbacks")
Conditions that far predate NAFTA.
When you compare with the Canada-USA border, members of NAFTA just like Mexico, don't you wonder why it's so different? ::)BTW Nafta was signed in 1994, while the mexico-US wall was upgrated after the 9/11 attacks...I have a doubt !! California, Texas: where do these states initially come from ? We might have a chance to meet while harvesting in California during our summer job? 😀 (talking about incentive from the US to "wetbacks")
