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Has anyone been following this? EDITORIAL: Hiding evidence of global cooling & Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?. I will predict that the hackers that got these emails will be thrown in jail along with the key if they are ever caught because they have exposed the hypocrisy of at least some of the GW crowd. GW is the new National Socialism. It gives people an excuse to control others.
There is a very good treatment to the GW / GC issue in SuperFreakanomics. Many of the problems could be dealt with for less than Gore et al spend to get folks stirred up.
Many of the problems could be dealt with for less than Gore et al spend to get folks stirred up.
That assumes that GW is actually occurring. I would argue that while it may be happening, the jury is and should still be out. To me that biggest thing that proves there are huge problems with the theory is that it's supporters are so vociferous in slandering the theory's opponents. One would think that if their science was as airtight as they want us to believe they would welcome dissent as an opportunity to both prove how strong their theory is and how weak the dissent really is. That is not what has happened, instead "deniers" as they call them are ridiculed and they attempt to marginalize them. But for some reason, the skeptics seem to have the theory that is withstanding scrutiny.
I'm just going to sit back and watch the fallout from this. It should be interesting. That blog from the UK Telegraph is excellent!
I will not be surprised if there are thousands of GW climatologists all over the world ensuring their files are either deleted or encrypted right about now. I also will not be surprised if this gets quietly forgotten and goes unreported by the vast majority of the news media. Only time will tell however.
I doubt it will be reported too, but according to that British guy, Britain has an FOI too. So if they hide, delete, encrypt the messages it will be illegal. (whether something's done about it is another thing :- )
One would think that if there science was as airtight as they want us to believe they would welcome dissent as an opportunity to both prove how strong their theory is and how weak the dissent really is. That is not what has happened, instead “deniers” as they call them are ridiculed and they attempt to marginalize them.
That's been one of my big problems with this whole debate - the attempts to marginalize. Although I am not a "science" guy, my understanding of science in general is that scientific knowledge is never really static. We hold onto certain laws of physics, chemistry, or whatever until and unless other laws develop that better illustrate how the universe operates.If we claim that we know for certain how an exceedingly complex event operates - namely, climate changes on the earth - we presume far too much. The bottom line is that we don't know for sure, but this is something that is not admitted by those on the left who want to push this belief onto us.Add to this that they want to direct trillions of dollars to address the "problem" and we have a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting to watch how this plays out. I will probably keep this thread alive for awhile like I am trying to do with the Fort Hood Shootings thread. There it bothers me because I was in that building in the fall of '08 and still know plenty of guys stationed at Hood. The PC aspect of the reaction to that whole story bothers me just like it does with GW. In GW you are either for it or in its proponents eyes no better than David Irving and equally worthy of their contempt. I take particular offense to the notion that some of these people have actually advocated to make denial of GW a crime in some European countries. Whether they were serious I don't know but that fact that they would suggest it even in jest is disturbing.Hot tempers on global warming The Daily Briefing 21/11/05 (Read #8)This stuff is not new either.
I agree that it will be interesting to see where this leads. Based on articles I have read over the last few months, it sounds like skepticism over GW is developing. If there is a silver lining to the bad economy, it's that people are not so welcoming to spending tax dollars on GW issues.Honestly, I think that our very civilization is at stake with the GW issue since there are so many other leftist pet causes that fall under the GW umbrella. I think this may be one of the reasons why the left is pushing so hard on this issue.
If the post-modernists can get most of the sheeple to buy GW they can enact most of the rest of their agenda under the aegis of climate protection legislation. The point about all the GW proposals seems to be not concern for the environment but control, control of business, control of lifestyle, control of just about everything. I think the British are so used to a controlling government that they more easily accept the GW argument, which is why it is so popular there. If the GW program is enacted they will even tell you how and when you can go to the bathroom. The wonder is that there are not more people raising hell about this issue.I am not averse to protecting the environment but there has to be limits on everything. I recycle, don't throw my used oil in the gutter, use low energy bulbs, I even compost my grass clippings. BUT, I dont need or want some holier than thou environmentalist type dictating what I eat, when I eat it, or even what I use when I go to the bathroom.
You're right that it's about control, at least at the level of the bureaucrats pulling the strings. I think at the heart of it all – why it catches on among the masses willing to hand over their rights to the government – is because people in general want to feel like their efforts have an “ultimate purpose”. As modern society rejects God, they have to find some other larger reason for their actions, or else they will end up in nihilism. I do seriously think that the lack of purpose in people's lives has made feel-good “green” living much more appealing.Oh, and this fits in with what has been stated by conservatives for years about how GW is a new "religion", complete with a moral code ("living green"), sins ("producing too much carbon"), indulgences ("buying/selling carbon credits"), prophets/messiahs ("Al Gore"), holy food ("organic food"), and fear of eternal punishment ("the melting of the polar caps and devastation of the earth").
Oh, and this fits in with what has been stated by conservatives for years about how GW is a new "religion", complete with a moral code ("living green"), sins ("producing too much carbon"), indulgences ("buying/selling carbon credits"), prophets/messiahs ("Al Gore"), holy food ("organic food"), and fear of eternal punishment ("the melting of the polar caps and devastation of the earth").
Is it a religion of love? Are they going to kill us to convert us?
Here's an interesting list:Global Warming Ate My Homework: 100 Things Blamed on Global WarmingFor some reason the list omitted another one:?Climate change pushes poor women to prostitution, dangerous work?
Oh, and this fits in with what has been stated by conservatives for years about how GW is a new "religion", complete with a moral code ("living green"), sins ("producing too much carbon"), indulgences ("buying/selling carbon credits"), prophets/messiahs ("Al Gore"), holy food ("organic food"), and fear of eternal punishment ("the melting of the polar caps and devastation of the earth").
I have often heard GW called a religion but never seen it laid out like that. That is a very interesting and apt comparison and makes you wonder at the same time. Is GW a response to the decline in faith and the rejection of God? If so, then can it be lumped in with communism, National Socialism, and other -isms that have arisen since the Enlightenment rejection of faith as superstition? It is an interesting thing to research if nothing else?
I have often heard GW called a religion but never seen it laid out like that. That is a very interesting and apt comparison and makes you wonder at the same time. Is GW a response to the decline in faith and the rejection of God? If so, then can it be lumped in with communism, National Socialism, and other -isms that have arisen since the Enlightenment rejection of faith as superstition? It is an interesting thing to research if nothing else?
Confusing Science with religion? All assessments made by these scientists about GW can be proved, demonstrated and ... challenged scientifically ! That hacking is a good point: it can lead to a contradictorily debate !All this stuff reminds me the time when Darwin published his book On the Origin of Species establishing evolutionary descent.BTW, where does the concept of intelligent design come from??
