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Elgin Marbles Fronton Est [CC-BY-SA-2.5 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5)], by Urban (Own work (Own picture)), from Wikimedia CommonsIt originally sounded like the British Museum was open to lending the Elgin Marbles to Athens, but on closer inspection it looks like the BM position has not changed:
“The trustees of the British Museum will consider -- subject to the usual considerations of condition and fitness to travel -- any request for any part of the collection to be borrowed and then returned,” it said.On Thursday, Acropolis Museum director Demetrios Pantermalis said that at a UNESCO meeting in June he had proposed the return of small fragments from the famous Parthenon Marbles to Greece, and that talks would be held in Athens in the coming weeks.
Museum denies plans of returning fragmentsTell me - what are the odds that if the Acropolis Museum did get the Elgin Marbles back on a loan from the British Museum, that they would not return them? I think the odds would be pretty good. From what I understand, there is little actual legal guidance which gives either side an upper leg over the other, so the real winner is the side which controls the actual goods. One thing is for sure, though - the ongoing economic crisis in Greece only serves to bolster the British side of the argument.
I don't see the British Museum giving up the marbles anytime soon. They would be stupid to do so.
Why ?
Are you asking "why?" to the first part of his statement or the second?
Both, even if I have an idea about the reasons for the BM to keep it. But I'm particularly interested about the second statement: "stupid to do so".
Because the uncertainty in the Greeks situation makes it unlikely they could continue o preserve them as well as the British have. That is why. Sorry, the Greeks are borderline savages and membership in the EU does not automatically confer responsibility as the obejct lesson of the past 3 years has demonstrated.
Because the uncertainty in the Greeks situation makes it unlikely they could continue o preserve them as well as the British have. That is why. Sorry, the Greeks are borderline savages and membership in the EU does not automatically confer responsibility as the obejct lesson of the past 3 years has demonstrated.
"Borderline savages" LOL, you should try to publish that one, Kids.co might be interested. http://www.britishmuseum.org/about_us/news_and_press/statements/parthenon_sculptures.aspxhttp://www1.american.edu/ted/monument.htm
Greec is at best a 2nd world country. I can't for the life of me figure out why they were ever let into the EU, much less the euro. They are about as corrupt as it gets on both a personal and governmental level as we have seen. Tax evasion is the national pastime there.
Greec is at best a 2nd world country. I can't for the life of me figure out why they were ever let into the EU, much less the euro. They are about as corrupt as it gets on both a personal and governmental level as we have seen. Tax evasion is the national pastime there.
They've been safe in the British Museum for decades. They should just stay there.
I disagree with both statements because I think the question is not about the "safety" of these objects or the "development" of the country that matters more. I think it's more about matters of cultural property (cf. link) and ownership: - " In the performing arts that problem is relatively easy to solve. Shakespeare might have a special connection with Stratford, and Mozart with Vienna - but we can all 'own' their works in performance anywhere in the world." - " Where do they belong? Is it better or worse to have them scattered through the world? Are they the possession of those who live in the place where they were first made? Or are they the possession of everyone?"http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/parthenon_debate_01.shtmlEven if Greece is enduring harsh economic and political difficulties, its cultural heritage doesn't seem to be in peril; http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/gr Do you really think that parts of their National treasures would be in danger ?Safe in London ? The sculptures suffered from 19th century pollution until mid-20th century, were damaged by at-the-time cleaning methods scraping away some of the detailed tone of many carvings.I think Elgin marbles restitution is certainly the tip of a wider "never-ending" debate about Art repatriation and cultural property. Not only Elgin marbles but also artefacts in the Louvre Museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, etc. Is the NAGPRA as controversial in the USA ?
I don't particularly disagree with you, Aeth, about cultural property. However, I still think they are in a safe place…as are many Egyptian treasures spread in museums throughout the world.Besides, isn't it benficial that people globally get to see things they normally wouldn't or couldn't? Not everyone can get to Greece or Egypt. (but Boston MFA is only an hour away). Should Boston or NYC return every piece of art to their country of origin?What I think is all these Parthenon marbles should be in one place, whether that be Greece or England.As for cleaning and pollution, wasn't this the case in practically every museum until modern cleaning methods and improvements?
Do you really think that parts of their National treasures would be in danger ?
It could and IMO that possibility is high. Not every foreign national in Greece is loyal to Greek culture and these OWS types aren't exactly respectful of others' property. And what's your opinion about artifacts in Egypt being destroyed during their 'Arab Spring?'
Ski,You're right on many points as well. That kind of debate about cultural property or ownership is, IMO, a kind of eternal controversy. No one will agree.As you mentioned about Egypt and the Arab Spring, as well as for many cultural artefacts around the world, some were looted, destroyed or saved abroad but one can always rightly claim that they are part of their heritage. It's all part of humanity heritage first. Now to decide where that or this must lay, it's all about a "gentleman's agreement".When I mentioned the NAGPRA, I was thinking about the Kennewick Man controversy.
You guys are mentioning two of the main arguments, both for and against sending them back to Athens. They are both valid, which is why this goes on. In regard to ownership, however – if I recall correctly, there are those who claim that ownership is proper (they were legitimately taken by Lord Elgin), and those who claim that it was improper. So this is an issue which probably does not play solely into the favor of the Greeks.
Don't forget what happened to the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan. Safety of cultural artifacts does play a role.
