- This topic has 6 voices and 15 replies.
-
Posts
-
I had not heard of this before, but during Israel's Six Day War the USS Liberty incidentIsraelis attacked the U.S. ship U.S.S. Liberty[/wiki], killing and wounding many. It was supposedly an accident but not everyone is satisfied with that explanation. Some people are still searching for justice in the matter.
I had not heard of this before, but during Israel's Six Day War the USS Liberty incidentIsraelis attacked the U.S. ship U.S.S. Liberty[/wiki], killing and wounding many. It was supposedly an accident but not everyone is satisfied with that explanation. Some people are still searching for justice in the matter.
Hairy likes to bring this subject up from time to time on Gunbroker. It is one of those mishaps in History that is used by anti-Israeli or anti-semitic groups who want to see America sever its ties with Israel or to quit favoring Israel over the Palestinian/Arabs. For those in our military who don't like the official findings by both Israeli and American investigators, they are seeking retribution for the lost lives of their fallen comrades. I understand this motive, but for the aforementioned groups, I lose patience with them very quickly.
You're into conspiracy theories lately, huh Phid?It could have been an accident, but I doubt it. From the wikepedia entry it says Israel asked the US if we had any ships in the vicinity and we said no. (I'd like to know who said that). Israel warned all ships to stay away. I wonder if it was an inside job to cause hostility between Israel and the U.S. Where there any indictments issued over this?
Ski, both sides thoroughly investigated the mishap and both sides concluded that it was a case of mistaken identity. I believe something like 10 independent investigations were done on this and all of them concluded the same thing more or less. But if you really want to get down to it, Israel warned us to stay clear, we didn't, and so we put our military at risk by trying to remain close to observe the conflict. Israel might have had a secret objective inside Egypt as well which they might have thought we would alert the Egyptians…inadvertedly of course, so they made a tactical decision that suited their best interests. Had we done what we were instructed to do, it simply would not have been an issue. It was unfortunate, but avoidable.
You're into conspiracy theories lately, huh Phid?
Actually I thought it was interesting to hear about and quite startling - after all, it was an Israeli attack on a U.S. ship. I'm still in the dark as to why people think Israel would have wanted to attack the United States. What would the motive have been?
Maybe covering up this war crime is the conspiracy.Submitted to the Secretary of the Army in his capacity as Executive Agent for the Secretary of Defense, June 8, 2005
The "Moorer Commission" (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack and made the following findings:"We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following: 1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;
more at linkBlind support of Israel may not always be in our best interest.
We should have kept our noses out of Israel's business. It was their war not ours. If our government accepted the findings, then either 1.) they were doing something they didn't want discovered or 2.) Israel intended to destroy the Liberty and we were embarrassed that they were able to do it. 3.) We didn't want to lose Israel as an ally since they were the most powerful ally in the region we could have.
We should have kept our noses out of Israel's business. It was their war not ours. If our government accepted the findings, then either 1.) they were doing something they didn't want discovered or 2.) Israel intended to destroy the Liberty and we were embarrassed that they were able to do it. 3.) We didn't want to lose Israel as an ally since they were the most powerful ally in the region we could have.
Seems the logical conclusion, IMHO.
We should have kept our noses out of Israel's business.
or4) The pro-Israel lobby in Washington DC has way too much influence over our foreign policy.Like when they bombed Baghdad's nukes. According to Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, former director of NSA, the only one's who knew about the location was the United States. Israel did not have access to that intelligence information. So who gave Israel that information?I'm beginning to question how much of an ally Israel really is. How many Israeli brigades are in Iraq or Afghanistan? Zero. And maybe that's a good thing.Look, I'm not against Israel's existence, but there seems to be a big problem here that everyone is afraid to address. And if anyone does, they are immediately labelled an anti-semite.There's no excuse for bombing a U.S. Naval ship and killing 76 seamen and injuring 170.
or4) The pro-Israel lobby in Washington DC has way too much influence over our foreign policy.
We should have kept our noses out of Israel's business.
Besides, we weren't doing anything. They jammed the ship's radios. The Liberty's mission was intelligence gathering only.Another situation is when they bombed Baghdad's nukes. According to Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, former director of NSA, the only one's who knew about the location was the United States. Israel did not have access to that intelligence information. So who gave Israel that information? If it came from inside, that's treason.I'm beginning to question how much of an ally Israel really is. How many Israeli brigades are in Iraq or Afghanistan? Zero. And maybe that's a good thing.Look, I'm not against Israel's existence, but there seems to be a big problem here that everyone is afraid to address. And if anyone does, they are immediately labelled an anti-semite or worse.There's no excuse for indescriminantly bombing a U.S. Naval ship and killing 34 U.S. seamen and injuring 170. If anybody else did that to us, we would have declared that as an act of war, or at the very least, certainly not make excuses for it.
This is the first that I've heard of the incident as well. Reading through the original link a bit, it sure looks like Israel had every opportunity to identify the ship as American. Given their aerial surveillance of it before the attack, it should have been unmistakable. And unmistakable that the ship was not armed. Surely Israel's intelligence intelligence was not that pathetic to make such a blunder.
If it was one bomb, then maybe I would think it was an intelligence error. But when the torpedo boats came after the initial airstrikes and shot at and killed or injured our men in lifeboats (a violation of international law), it was no mistake. It was a war crime.
Having bet the ranch, so to speak, on Israel as most likely ally in the ME (and a very rich and powerful lobby at home) it was in the best interest of the gov't to sit on this one it seems. I'm not a conspiracy theorist (much! ;D) but this appears to be another of the times we are mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed road apples) for whatever reason.I love my country but fear my government.
If it was one bomb, then maybe I would think it was an intelligence error. But when the torpedo boats came after the initial airstrikes and shot at and killed or injured our men in lifeboats (a violation of international law), it was no mistake. It was a war crime.
The Liberty was flying a large American flag, it had GTR5 on the side. From picutures of it prior to the attack, it was obviously not armed. Hours worth of recon in clear weather. No mistake. Not even if it was just one bomb.
