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This is a nice little fact that was in article on bloomberg today:
The $9.7 trillion in pledges would be enough to send a $1,430 check to every man, woman and child alive in the world. It?s 13 times what the U.S. has spent so far on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Congressional Budget Office data, and is almost enough to pay off every home mortgage loan in the U.S., calculated at $10.5 trillion by the Federal Reserve.
Here is the full article: U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes
All I know is I'm thankful for Lindsey Graham, John Thune, and all the other Republicans speaking out against this pork-laden, unstimulating bill.
It makes me think of the fall of the Roman economy. The worse off the thing becomes, the more radical the steps become to try to save it. I really wish that someone like Romney were in the White House right about now…
It will be interesting to see how this works out. The Republicans dont have a lot of room to gripe about spending, they have been spending money like drunken sailors for the last eight years. Rant beginsWhat I am missing in all of this is where the element of personal responsibility comes in, especially in reference to defaults on mortgages. I dont buy the talk of predatory lenders. I place responsibility on the individuals that signed mortgage contracts. If they did not know or did not take the time to find out what the terms of the CONTRACTS they signed were, they should never have signed them in the first place. I also think the government should let all the banks fail and have the FDIC stick to their $100,000 per account limit. I am very unhappy that I, a responsible person who pays their bills on time, am gettting stuck paying for the mistakes of millions of idiots. It makes me think I should have been just as reckless as everyone else because I am certainly not going to benefit from my responsible behavior, the irresponsible people are.Rant complete.
I still cant wrap my mind around the concept of tax cuts for people who dont pay taxes in the first place.
I read about a suggestion today, which obviously didn't make the current package. Instead of sending a stimulous check to everyone – which may go to pay down debt, or just as likely, in the savings account, that the government should send out, say, a $2000 check card / debit card. The only way to use the money is to spend it — that's stimulous. Unfortunately, there are those who would use it to buy a new LCD TV instead of groceries, new tires for the car, carpeting, a new fridge, etc.
The only way to use the money is to spend it — that's stimulous. Unfortunately, there are those who would use it to buy a new LCD TV instead of groceries, new tires for the car, carpeting, a new fridge, etc.
I can see why you would think it bad for people to do this - those who can barely feed themselves or who live off the public dole ought to use such money so they can better support themselves. That said, even if people bought new rims, TVs, or entertainment items, they would still be pumping the money back into the economy and providing a catalyst for economic growth.Some people complained about all the money spent on last month's Inauguration during an economic downturn. But would it have been better if such money were not spent? Many businesses were helped by Inauguration, and in the end one of the ways to restart the economy is for spending to begin in the private sector.
Why is it such a bad thing if the government were to let the market self-correct instead of propping up failed organizations? Nobody knows what the free market will do because the government is too busy interfering in its operation.I have a novel idea. Why not pass a law that says you cannot get a larger tax refund than the amount of payroll taxes that you paid in for any given tax year?
Why is it such a bad thing if the government were to let the market self-correct instead of propping up failed organizations?
Because our current government leaders, at least the Pres and his economic advidors, think capitalism is evil. IOW, they are Marxists.
Nobody knows what the free market will do because the government is too busy interfering in its operation.
This is what scares me. The market probably will correct itself, and when it does they will credit this stimulus plan.
Just got done reading an article where the CBO is predicting that paying for the “stimulus” bill will actually lower GDP. Here is a good opinion piece about it by Joe Scarborough Can't keep spending money we don't haveI fear that predictions of a socialist state will come true faster than anyone thought. I dont hear a lot of talk about the health records provision in the stimulus either. Luckily since most republicans are sitting this one out when this plan fails Obama will not be able to blame Bush and the Republicans. This is further proof that we have better government when one party is in the white house and the other controls congress.
The only way to use the money is to spend it -- that's stimulous. Unfortunately, there are those who would use it to buy a new LCD TV instead of groceries, new tires for the car, carpeting, a new fridge, etc.
I can see why you would think it bad for people to do this - those who can barely feed themselves or who live off the public dole ought to use such money so they can better support themselves. That said, even if people bought new rims, TVs, or entertainment items, they would still be pumping the money back into the economy and providing a catalyst for economic growth.
Looking back, I see that my mind didn't connect to my words. The point that I was trying (badly) to make, was that there are those who would use the stimulus check / check card to put out a down payment on something else that they'd have to make payments on <> -- such as a 52" Plasma, which not only requires a large up front sum, but also needs a $500 TV stand and $120 a month in HD or Sattelite programming... all while paying off credit card debt and car payments while putting nothing into a 401k or Roth IRA.I guess it just twists my nipple to see people who earn a quarter of what I make driving $60,000 cars, carrying around their latest iPhones, eating lunch out every day and talking about their home theater systems and what restaurant they are going to tonight. Meanwhile, I drive a 10 year old pick up truck with 170,000 miles on it (paid for when I picked it up on the lot), I brownbag my lunch every day, have basic cable at home, read rather than watch movies, carry no credit card balance, paid off my student loans ages ago and even though I don't max it out, make payments to my 401k and Roth IRA every month, and instead of eating out a couple of times a week I've put about 120 pounds of venison in the freezer this winter.More so than Wall Street, Banking CEOs, and corrupt politicians, I believe that most of the mess we are in now is due to a culture of personal fiscal irresponsibility. That is, people believing that it is more important to "appear" successful than to "be" successful. People are more concerned about being judged and evaluated as human beings by the cars that they drive, the labels that they wear, and the size of the houses they live in -- rather than, as Dr. King said, "the content of their character." Take, for example, a recent piece in the Washington Post - retailers moaning over how spending this Valentines day is expected to be down from the average of $123 spent per person last year. That on the heals of the same type of article back in October stating that the average person spends over $300 on Halloween! Sure, the bankers, brokers, and real estate agents have their fair share of the blame, but in my mind it is the overall culture of frivolous consumption that kept us barrelling down this road without our headlights or seatbelts on. <>We now return you to this thread, already in progress.... ;D
This is further proof that we have better government when one party is in the white house and the other controls congress.
I don't know, man. The general economy, GDP, manufacturing, job growth, markets were all doing pretty good with a Republican Congress and President
From Vulture
I believe that most of the mess we are in now is due to a culture of personal fiscal irresponsibility.
I agree with you 100% here. I have no debt except for a house payment and it irritates the hell out of me to hear politicians and pundits talking as if I have the obligation even the duty, to pay for the irresponsible behavior of both business and individuals. I know a guy with three cars, a boat, a house, no savings, and a mountain of credit card debt and it blows me away to listen to him complain about how hard it is to make the payments and how unfair life is. The most ironic piece of it all is that he gets offended when I ask him why he needs all of his stuff and if he thought about how much debt he has before he makes more. He blames "THEM" for all his problems because he is innocent, he is only living the American dream after all.My wife and I both drive new cars that we paid cash for and floored the salesman. The salesman even tried to talk me into financing my truck because then I could use my cash to buy accessories. He could not understand that I don't need custom wheels for my truck and why would I assume debt when I can pay cash. We live by the motto that if it is worth having, it is worth saving for.
This is further proof that we have better government when one party is in the white house and the other controls congress.
I don't know, man. The general economy, GDP, manufacturing, job growth, markets were all doing pretty good with a Republican Congress and President
All the growth was unsustainable as we are finding out now. Bush got four years of Republican congress and president and he couldn't even get his tax cuts made permanent. I am really curious what is going to happen to the economy when those start expiring next year and Obama will let them expire. He will also tell you that their expiration is not a tax hike. The Bush administration oversaw the largest expansion of both government and government debt in the last eight years. Do not get me wrong. I like Bush, I just think his spending priorities were crap.I have said it for years and I will keep saying it. If I ran my personal finances like the government runs theirs, I would be in jail. Apparently many Americans were running their finances like the government and now that particular chicken is coming home to roost. The most despicable part is responsible individuals are going to be left holding the bag while the idiots that got loans they shouldn't have are going to get bailed out along with the idiots in charge of the companies that gave them the loan in the first place. I don't have any pity for somebody who lived beyond their means and whine when reality jumps up and bites them. There are still plenty of cardboard boxes around.
Here is a further nice little factoid and one hell of a quote.
the American public is largely unaware that the true deficit of the federal government already is measured in trillions of dollars, and in fact its $65.5 trillion in total obligations exceeds the gross domestic product of the world.
Here is the quote, which echos what i have been saying for years.
"The federal government is bankrupt, in a post-Enron world, if the federal government were a corporation such as General Motors, the president and senior Treasury officers would be in a federal penitentiary."
Both come from the same article.Federal obligations exceed world GDP: Does $65.5 trillion terrify anyone yet?I think terrifying is the perfect adjective to be used. Feels like we are living in the interesting times of the old Chinese proverb/curse doesn't it?
