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May 29, 2009 at 11:38 pm #1610
skiguy
ModeratorIs it just me or is this guy really cool? His rise to power is quite fascinating and surprisingly civil. It's cool how he had many titles but this didn't lessen the power or authority of any one of them.
May 30, 2009 at 12:06 am #15649Phidippides
KeymasterI would say an argument may be made for Augustus as the greatest leader of all time. I thought we had a thread/poll around here on that very topic, but upon looking for it I guess we have not. He is a truly fascinating figure.
September 16, 2009 at 5:25 am #15650Phidippides
KeymasterIs it just me or is this guy really cool? His rise to power is quite fascinating and surprisingly civil. It's cool how he had many titles but this didn't lessen the power or authority of any one of them.
In what way are you saying his rise to power was "surprisingly civil"?
September 16, 2009 at 8:51 am #15651scout1067
ParticipantI would say an argument may be made for Augustus as the greatest leader of all time.
I have to agree with this assessment. He was an exceedingly shrewd person who managed to end the Roman Civil Wars while preserving Rome as a state. Not an easy task.
September 17, 2009 at 9:26 am #15652skiguy
ModeratorIs it just me or is this guy really cool? His rise to power is quite fascinating and surprisingly civil. It's cool how he had many titles but this didn't lessen the power or authority of any one of them.
In what way are you saying his rise to power was "surprisingly civil"?
His rise to power was tumultuous at first, but after he gained power, he did it using intelligence and diplomacy rather than civil war or assasination. Surprisingly unusual for Rome at that time.
September 17, 2009 at 11:40 am #15653scout1067
ParticipantHe consolidated his power because he had the support of all the remaining legions, not because he was such a nice guy. He showed during his rise that he was willing to do what it took to end the civil wars.He was magnanimous in victory because he held all the cards and apparently his mother did tell him that you can catch more ants with honey than vinegar. He was smart and shrewd because he managed to make the majority eventually accede to his rule. He did that by throwing them bones in the form of the preserving the shape if not the function of traditional institutions so that the losers could console themselves with the thought that the Republic still existed. Once he had control it was not necessary for him to rub peoples nose in the fact that he had one, he could afford to fake the funk of Republican institutions because in reality he held all the power.
September 17, 2009 at 3:43 pm #15654Phidippides
KeymasterHis rise to power was tumultuous at first, but after he gained power, he did it using intelligence and diplomacy rather than civil war or assasination. Surprisingly unusual for Rome at that time.
Oh, ok...I was thinking that it was in fact quite tumultuous at first right after the assassination of Julius Caesar, but you are right that after the Battle of Actium things did settle down nicely for him.And also I agree with Scout about how Augustus more or less threw bones to the others even as he retained ultimate power. I wonder whether the Senators saw through this easily enough and were either powerless to stop it, or if they were actually in favor of a single powerful ruler and so did not want to stop it.Two other interesting things that Augustus did, according to Prof. Thomas F.X. Noble, were making sure that as emperor, the territories he retained control of were a) ones rich in resources (e.g. Egypt) and b) the most volatile ones. By doing so he could control the flow of supplies into Rome and could ensure that regions did not break away on their own and act against Rome's interests. I suppose this also ensured that other generals would not take large armies to those regions for battle, which could have given them an upper hand if they decided to return to Rome to oppose Augustus.
September 18, 2009 at 7:33 am #15655scout1067
ParticipantA curious thing that highlights his shrewdness is that he never accepted the title of Emperor{Imperator} even though it was offered to him at least twice that I am aware of. He was content to be known as First Citizen{Primoris Civis}, he wanted the reality, not the appearance, of power.
September 18, 2009 at 2:45 pm #15656Phidippides
KeymasterHe was content to be known as First Citizen{Primoris Civis}, he wanted the reality, not the appearance, of power.
I have almost always heard the reference to Augustus as "Princeps" (first citizen). What is the difference between that at "Primoris Civis"?
September 19, 2009 at 9:22 am #15657scout1067
ParticipantNothing essentially, the difference between first and in the lead. Semantics, both are correct
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