- This topic has 4 voices and 7 replies.
-
Posts
-
Was the investiture controversy between Henry and Gregory in the late eleventh century only about the appointment of prelates? My son is covering this in history class and it is being presented as a strict secular-religious conflict. I think it is a little more than that because at the time bishops were secular as well as spiritual lords. At a minimum they owed some fealty to the sovereign and Gregory's revocation of royal prerogative was nothing more than a power play. Gregory was trying to steal Henry's thunder if you will. Anybody else have an opinion?
.... Gregory's revocation of royal prerogative was nothing more than a power play. Gregory was trying to steal Henry's thunder if you will. Anybody else have an opinion?
This is how it was presented to me about 40 years ago. 😮
I was taught the power play theory as well. It makes sense when you consider the degree of temporal power wielded by Medieval popes. The pope wanted to consolidate and add to his power just like any other ruler at the time. Popes just had weapons available to them that kings and emperors did not. Kind of hard to argue when God's representative calls you out.
I wonder why they would say it's a secular-religious conflict when Henry used scripture to back up his argument against Gregory. “even kings are called to serve God, not just popes or the clergy” (paraphrase)Henry IV: Letter to Gregory VII, Jan 24 1076
Secular-Religious because even though Kings ruled by Divine Right, they were not the interpreters of scripture that priest and prelates were. A kings powers was temporal while a priests was spiritual. At least that is the theory as I understand it.
If I remember correctly part of it was over who would get to appoint the Bishops… Pope wanted loyalty to himself (and the Church) and Henry wanted the same but his vassals that were Churchly but personally loyal to him.
If I remember correctly part of it was over who would get to appoint the Bishops
Yes, I think it was ALL about that. I've read suggestions that Pope Gregory VII was somewhat a Roman nationalist. He did not like the fact that a German emperor was involved in Roman affairs.
I wonder why they would say it's a secular-religious conflict when Henry used scripture to back up his argument against Gregory. "even kings are called to serve God, not just popes or the clergy" (paraphrase)Henry IV: Letter to Gregory VII, Jan 24 1076
I think you're right about this. It was not a mere secular-religious battle, but a dispute over what kind of role the king and the pope had in religious affairs. Our modern views which separate the spheres of church and state were absent for much of history and so we can't really use that framework for discussing the situation between Henry and Gregory.
