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I am having trouble being positive about the future and am looking for some historical foundation to rebuild my outlook. Who better but students of western civ to provide such?On the surface there is an appearance that historically things improve, sometimes slowly, but improve none-the-less. (things being freedom, lifespan, quality of life, etc.) And there are always recessions in the advancement. World wars, economic downturns, plagues, dictators, etc. But it always seems to come out “better.”As I look forward now I don’t see improvement coming. I hear Jeff Goldbloom in my head talking about chaos. I see politicians acting even more for their own advantage and less for what’s best for their respective countries/peoples. (Greeks getting shafted by the EU). I see power hungry big money trying to swallow the future in a nearly Bond villain manner. I see a terrifying militarization of the US as the same Politicians pour billion(trillions?) into spying on citizens and alleged external threats. Since 9/11 we seem to be on an uncontrolled descent into a new fascist America. 15 years ago the liberals in government would have been happily but quietly supporting the occupy movement. Now they are the ones breaking up the camps, arresting the protesters after using pepper spray on non-violet protesters.Please, if you can, cite me some historical reference or precedent that I can bone up on, that it’s not all going to the proverbial hand-basket permanently.Thanks in advanceTuffy
Well, I believe I have heard it said that each generation thinks it exists in the worst of times. I think that is true. I also think that whether an age is a “bad” one depends on one's circumstances and disposition. I imagine that the Romans living during late antiquity would have felt their world coming apart as their emperors were becoming less able to control the barbarians banging at their gates. I imagine that those living in central France or Germany in 1348 would have been in terror if they had heard about the wave of death approaching by way of the plague which could kill half a city's population. I imagine that Jews living in Poland in 1940 would have known that sooner or later, they would be taken by the Nazis, and deprived of property and even life. Reading what you have written, I see nothing that has really affected you personally. Most of your concerns seem to be centered around perceived injustices - greed, someone's privacy possibly being infringed upon, etc. However, in the scheme of things, they really don't measure up to some of the injustices throughout history. There are mere trifles, but they seem major likely because you read about them everyday in the papers. However, you are in an incredibly better place in relation to your government than many, many people throughout history. Yes, there are difficulties that we face in the world, but this is part of the human experience. We Americans have been coddled too much; I think this is more an exception than the norm of human experience.
Pardon my delay in following up. Since I did not get direct answer I felt it necessary to take time and consider my restatement. It feels as if the empires of the western world have grown too big and too cumbersome to prevent some type of collapse that will affect everyone.Increasingly the weight of national debt, a bureaucracy that seems to multiply exponentially promulgating punishing laws and regulations, the militarization of nearly every aspect of law enforcement, and the nearly laughable classification of benign and often laughably harmless fringe groups as possible terrorists that seems to hint at a deep rooted government paranoia of the citizenry and disconnect from basic economic, social and ethical reality, all of which seem to foster more distrust and disdain of the government by the citizenry. In my knowledge base and experience, this historically leads downhill to despotism, financial collapse, the guillotine, and worse.Accept that I don't think, as you stated, that I feel I'm living in the worst of times, becuase I don't. (I'm a prosperous lucky SOB who repeatedly falls in crap and comes out smelling like roses.) Accept that my concerns are for your children and grandchildren. (I don't have any children and my genuine concerns are that we don't go backwards and that things continue to improve for all.)CHALLENGE - Cite me a historical reference of a similar civilization teetering on the edge of collapse, that was able to alter course and return to a stable economic, political and social foundation.
It feels as if the empires of the western world have grown too big and too cumbersome to prevent some type of collapse that will affect everyone.
What specific empires are you referring to? They are all intertwined so much trhat it's difficult to define any as an empire.
Cite me a historical reference of a similar civilization teetering on the edge of collapse, that was able to alter course and return to a stable economic, political and social foundation.
Pretty much all of them. Great Britain, Germany, France, Japan, China, etc. All of them were strong or weak at some point in their history.
The British post-WWII. They actually came out of de-colonialism better than history would lead you to expect.
Pardon my delay in following up. Since I did not get direct answer I felt it necessary to take time and consider my restatement. It feels as if the empires of the western world have grown too big and too cumbersome to prevent some type of collapse that will affect everyone.Increasingly the weight of national debt, a bureaucracy that seems to multiply exponentially promulgating punishing laws and regulations, the militarization of nearly every aspect of law enforcement, and the nearly laughable classification of benign and often laughably harmless fringe groups as possible terrorists that seems to hint at a deep rooted government paranoia of the citizenry and disconnect from basic economic, social and ethical reality, all of which seem to foster more distrust and disdain of the government by the citizenry. In my knowledge base and experience, this historically leads downhill to despotism, financial collapse, the guillotine, and worse.Accept that I don't think, as you stated, that I feel I'm living in the worst of times, becuase I don't. (I'm a prosperous lucky SOB who repeatedly falls in crap and comes out smelling like roses.) Accept that my concerns are for your children and grandchildren. (I don't have any children and my genuine concerns are that we don't go backwards and that things continue to improve for all.)CHALLENGE - Cite me a historical reference of a similar civilization teetering on the edge of collapse, that was able to alter course and return to a stable economic, political and social foundation.
I think that part of the problem is that I don't accept your premise that we are "teetering on the edge of collapse" based on the list of "wrongs" you provided above. Yes, I do think that we are an American civilization which has peaked and is on the decline, thanks to a citizenry that is so demanding in its so-called "rights" to immediate gratification and entitlements that the rights of others is infringed upon; and leaders at the highest levels of government who cowtow to these special interests out of false idealism or washed-up radicalism left over from decades ago. Yet I do not think we are at a point of no return. Rather, we are a nation in need of help, in need of a return to the principles that guided our nation to its greatness of the 19th century and early 20th century. What civilizations were "worse off" than us? Well it really depends on how you mean "worse off" - economically? Physically? I can cite the 900-year old Byzantine empire, whose capital at Constantinople was sacked in 1204 by Crusaders who replaced its emperor with a Latin emperor. Seeing how this Latin emperor was in place for 50+ years, I think that this had to have looked pretty bad for the Byzantines, but in 1261 they rose again and reclaimed the empire for themselves, only to rule it for another (nearly) 200 years before it was quashed for good in 1453 by the Turks.I think we can also cite any number of Italian city-states which were struck by the plague, repeatedly from the 14th to 17th centuries. Many of these populations were cut down by double digit percentages - some by a third, some I believe by one half. I would say that these were on the "verge of collapse" but came back strong.
