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I read a reference to Savonarola in a reading I did tonight and decided to refresh my memory on the man. He's a very interesting figure in Renaissance history, as his career began humbly before his message against the laxity of Florentines propelled him to power within the city of Florence. His most famous act may have been the instigation of the Bonfire of the Vanities, in which citizens had their personal possessions burned. Eventually his favor waned and he was excommunicated, removed from power, tortured, and killed. He remained an influential figure even after his death, perhaps having some influence on the Protestant Reformation. Even today the man's character is the subject of debate; different groups have really different views as to whether he should be canonized as a Saint.
Although historical fiction, Irving Stone's The Agony and the Ecstasy is impeccably researched. Shows some interesting details on Savonarola that should be easily checkable for further info.
He was a religious fanatic and anybody who burns books should be micturatedupon by a whole Impi of Zulu warriors every day until he dies.
He was a religious fanatic and anybody who burns books should be micturatedupon by a whole Impi of Zulu warriors every day until he dies.
And are you saying that as someone who knows what goes into canonization, or as someone with a cursory knowledge of the man and an opinion which is shaped by modern political correctness? I think if we were to judge by modern popular standards, most of the people in history would be considered religious fanatics to one degree or another. This is a good reason why we should not judge history based on modern popular standards.
Oh I have excellent credentials–Catholic education (Jesuits), Irish Catholic mother, scars and knowledgeof just what a devil's advocate's function is.If he is ever achieves sainthood, I may rejoin to Church so as to burrow from within and get a tattoo of Voltaireon my forehead to be displayed at Mass each week.I lived in Tuscany for a year and he is still talked about--mostly in the negative at the time--Oh well it was the 1960,s.
Well then I should comment that you probably know that many of the canonized Saints could be considered “religious fanatics” to people nowadays. Think about St. Francis of Assisi….we wouldn't be talking about him today if he didn't live life as a “fanatic”. But burning books is hardly the crime against humanity that you suggested it was in your previous post. It is merely a form of censorship with an exclamation point behind it. Conservatives, liberals - most everyone practices censorship to some degree even today.
Yes–The Church picks saints for various purposes–mainly political I should think. Fanaticism need not be a roadblock–remember Barry Goldwater's immortal quote!The burning of books is a horrid act although I agree it is a form of crude censorship. As far as I know it has never happened in this country since 1789 although libraries have been known to use alternate methods. Every time I think of book burning I remember pictures of the SA in Germany or the Ray Bradbury short story Fahrenheit 451--anathema!I would suggest we practice censorship every day--just by choosing. I do not watch Fox news.
Yes--The Church picks saints for various purposes--mainly political I should think. Fanaticism need not be a roadblock--remember Barry Goldwater's immortal quote!
Political? Although I am not sure that you are in this boat, I think that anti-Christian sentiments espoused these days tries to reduce Christianity to mere politics. I think it's an utterly ridiculous sentiment. As if only liberals have motives which are pure, lofty, and selfless. Others merely feign virtue in order to make their grasp on power more firm. Again, I'm not sure you are in this boat. I would, however, take great issue with your assertion above.
The burning of books is a horrid act although I agree it is a form of crude censorship. As far as I know it has never happened in this country since 1789 although libraries have been known to use alternate methods. Every time I think of book burning I remember pictures of the SA in Germany or the Ray Bradbury short story Fahrenheit 451--anathema!
I guess I don't see why the burning of books is any better or worse than any other form of censorship. Sure, I suppose there's an element of public "intimidation". But we're talking about the 15th century here. I think that you can find much censorship by liberals at any number of universities. To be consistent, should such professors be "micturated upon by a whole Impi of Zulu warriors every day until he dies"??
The burning of books evokes a feeling of fear and terror within me. I imagine it is based upon the subliminal fear that the Barbarians have won and are coming to eradicate us.If I agreed that Liberal professors at the Universities selected certain texts and not others for their classesit would not be censorship as much as a selection of (in their opinion) the most appropriate book. Non-selection might be construed as elimination, but not destruction. Hopefully, if the students are beingeducated and not merely trained or schooled to take their place in the host of corporate cubicles that awaitmany of them, they will question authority, challenge orthodoxy and seek a better truth that awaitstheir choice.The professors who know what an impi is or can define micturation without resort to a book shall be sparedthe indignity. Thucidides has a wonderful passage where he talks about the Athenian prisoners takenin the ill-advised Syracuse expedition. If I recall correctly, the prisoners who could recite lines from theplay The Trojan Woman by Euripides were set free as the play was written as an anti-war statement,an apologia for the horror of Melos and the fate of those innocents that we today call collateraldamage. I wonder if Hitler had the play banned?
I hardly think that the kind of censorship going on at universities is confined to mere “text selection” – something which can be brushed off. So your objection to book burning is because of the fear it evokes. Very well, if you had been living in the 15th century that may or may not have been the case. But here we are living in the 21st century where our own government has in the past year asked citizens to "report" other citizens to flag@whitehouse.gov as a means of "correcting" "misinformation". A modern-day form of "censoring", which looks to me like it uses a bit of intimidation for good measure.
Yes–The Church picks saints for various purposes–mainly political I should think. Fanaticism need not be a roadblock–remember Barry Goldwater's immortal quote!Political? Although I am not sure that you are in this boat, I think that anti-Christian sentiments espoused these days tries to reduce Christianity to mere politics. I think it's an utterly ridiculous sentiment. As if only liberals have motives which are pure, lofty, and selfless. Others merely feign virtue in order to make their grasp on power more firm. Again, I'm not sure you are in this boat. I would, however, take great issue with your assertion above. QuoteI am well steeped in Catholicism. As I said--the Church picks saints for various reasons--I suggest political as a primary motive--political in the sense of being in the best interests of the Church at thetime. I do not reduce Christianity to politics, but I do suggest that the selection of people to be elevated to sainthood is motivated in many cases by the political benefits that flow from such an action. Thisis all academic as I also believe that the whole concept of sainthood is a scam on the laity.
I do not reduce Christianity to politics, but I do suggest that the selection of people to be elevated to sainthood is motivated in many cases by the political benefits that flow from such an action. This is all academic as I also believe that the whole concept of sainthood is a scam on the laity.
I think you have summed up the dynamics of your approach in the quote above.Anyway, I think that the main point of my original post was that there seems to be another side to Savonarola that the public is not all that familiar with. This is the kind of historical "thing" that I find interesting.
