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Socialized medicine

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  • August 3, 2009 at 8:26 pm #1678 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    Not really history, but it does echo the principles discussed by Adam Smith hundreds of years ago.  John Stossel does a great job explaining how despite its flaws, the American health care system is better than the Canadian one.http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8227482

    August 6, 2009 at 1:39 am #16187 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    See this from the whitehouse:

    There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care.  These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation.  Since we can?t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we?re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/Whaddya say we start forwarding “fishy” clips and statements by Obama and other Democrats on to flag@whitehouse.gov when we see them?  ;D

    August 6, 2009 at 7:33 am #16188 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    I guess “fishy” is anything that doesnt toe the party line and talk about how great universal health care will be?Wont it be awesome when the government tells you that your grandparent, parent, wife, etc. has to die because giving them cintinued care would be uneconomical?  ::) I cant wait, when does the Euthanasia program start and when will they start telling us which diseases will be treated and which wont.  I would not be surprised if they say that diseases related to smoking, obesity, etc will not be covered because if you make the right lifestyle choices you will not get those conditions.   Do you think your doctor will have to certify that your heart disease is not due to obesity before you are covered?  I can see all of this coming down the pike.It is all about control not about healthcare.  Controlling your healthcare means they can easier control who lives and who dies and decide who is worth being treated and who not.

    August 7, 2009 at 11:30 am #16189 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Here is a nice little quote I pulled from an article about a letter John Cornyn wrote to the O-man about his request for “fishy” information about healthcare. 

    “I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward e-mails critical of his policies to the White House,” Cornyn wrote.

      the full article is here: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'. I had not thought of that aspect of the O-mans request.  But the more I think about it the more convinced I am that there is an element of truth to this accusation.  Ultimately I believe the liberals seek control, the kind of soft-totalitarianism that exists in England.  They are willing to pay lip service to freedom but only willing to grant it on their terms.  In that kind of case it won?t be freedom at all.  What is the ultimate objective of government healthcare?  Is it helping people or controlling their fate?  I am just suspicious enough that I am starting to think it is the latter.

    August 13, 2009 at 7:21 am #16190 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    What is scary about the current healthcare plans is what congress is not telling us.  You cant tell me that all these congress-critters have read a bill that is 1000 pages long.  I am constantly amazed by the little gems that conservatives are pulling out of the text of the bill.  Here is another good example: Dirty Secret No. 1 in Obamacare  I really like the thought of some government goon telling me how to raise my kids.  I mean, the post-modernists are so good at raising kids right?  That is why Americans produce so many semi-literate out of our schools and kids with no respect for their elders .By the way, I decided I am no longer going to call the left liberals because that sullies the word.  A True Liberal wants the best for everyone without controlling them.  I am henceforth going to refer to the left as what they are, which are post-modernists in the mold of Derrida and Foucault.

    August 13, 2009 at 11:55 pm #16191 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    It's been remarked before that socialists basically need to achieve tyranny in order to accomplish their goals, and although we all know that liberals are socialistic, most of the public just accepts that as par for the course.  With the latest stunt in health care, however, liberals are starting to reveal the true socialism of their ideology.  Condemning free speech and trying to marginalize it, asking the public basically to rat on opposing views and send them to the White House “truth minister”, and trying to ram the bill through seem to be marks of the tyranny of the American socialism at work.  Who knows what else is hidden in the bill?Oh, and recently I've been having that song pop up in my mind from last Fall when Obama was campaigning.  You know, the one with the little kids in the room singing the “Obama Anthem” while adults in the room stood around smiling.  Are the stars not aligning for the new totalitarianism?

    August 14, 2009 at 7:34 am #16192 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    I am waiting for one of the post-modernist talking heads to start tossing around a new euphemism meaning the “dictatorship of the proletariat”.  I firmly believe we are seeing the new face of totalitarianism in much of the legislation that current administration has endorsed or proposed.  1984 is coming, it is just a few years later than Orwell thought.

    September 10, 2009 at 4:11 pm #16193 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    What I can't stand is the media's attempt to interpret events as “historical” right after they happen. Not surprisingly, this one is an interpretation that helps the Democrats:

    All eyes were on President Barack Obama entering Wednesday night's address to Congress, but a little-known South Carolina Republican may have done more than the president?s combative speech to unify besieged Democrats around health care reform.

    Wilson's rallying cryI only saw the clip of the congressman yelling it out on replay, but it didn't sound all that bad.  Should he have done it?  No, but there is plenty of yelling, applause, etc. going on during such speeches that his quip was not all that out of the ordinary.

    September 10, 2009 at 4:24 pm #16194 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    You notice that historical thing too, huh?Hillary and the dems booed and snickered during one of Bush's SOTU speeches. Did anyone complain about that?

    September 10, 2009 at 5:24 pm #16195 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Wilson was only speaking the truth.  He was out of line though I think.  That was not the only lie in his speech though.  Obama was also very partisan in his speech.  He essentially blamed everything on the Republicans.  I guess he had to that since blaming Bush is getting old and it is hard to blame Bush for something that has started on his watch. Those evil Republicans are stopping him from improving this country.  The difficulty is pulling truth out of the mass of lies he spread last night, there is not much to be found.  The country is so divided that I am waiting for congressmen to get into fistfights.

    September 10, 2009 at 5:51 pm #16196 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    (just got done watching the entire speech on the Huffington Post HERE, its at the bottom of the transcript) I would not oppose the health care plan if every dollar spent on health care that would add to the deficit was matched by an equivalent cut in spending somewhere else in the federal budget as Obama says will happen.  I am not holding my breath though.  This monster will fall of its own weight and bring the whole economy down with it under the weight of the massive debt this and other democrat sponsored programs force the government to take on through their unwillingness to cut spending.I propose we eliminate every cabinet department except for State, Treasury, War (not defense, lets call what it really is), and Postmaster General and eliminate every program associated with those departments and save I dont know how many billions.  That would be a good start to putting this country back on its financial feet so my great grandchildren are not paying for Obama's debt, if America even survives that long as a nation.

    September 10, 2009 at 9:07 pm #16197 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    Wilson was only speaking the truth.  He was out of line though I think.  That was not the only lie in his speech though.  Obama was also very partisan in his speech.  He essentially blamed everything on the Republicans.  I guess he had to that since blaming Bush is getting old and it is hard to blame Bush for something that has started on his watch. Those evil Republicans are stopping him from improving this country.  The difficulty is pulling truth out of the mass of lies he spread last night, there is not much to be found.  The country is so divided that I am waiting for congressmen to get into fistfights.

    The amazing thing is how the media is creating a big issue out of this.  These were some of the stories featured on Yahoo just now: Obama accepts lawmaker's apology for 'lie' remarkThe 'You lie!' aftermathCongress' other Wilson says: I'm not the hecklerNaturally, the support has been so much against the Democrats' health care plan in recent months that any way of re-directing criticism against the Republicans will be used by liberals.  The Daily Kos is apparently now helping to raise money for Congressman Wilson's Democratic opponent.  Not surprising.

    September 11, 2009 at 8:29 am #16198 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Partisanship is alive and well in Obama's post-partisan adminsitration.  He and the Democrats are just as guilty of partisan methods as any Republican.  Buchanan had a good piece about how divisive American society has become. HERE I generally think Buchanan is a flake but I have to agree with him for the most part on this one.

    September 11, 2009 at 2:49 pm #16199 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    I had read that Buchanan piece and unfortunately, I think he is very correct in what he says about America breaking apart.  Why do you think he's a flake?  I have thought for a while that Buchanan is the most brilliant U.S. politician in the sense that he is the most historically-informed.  This does not mean that one cannot disagree with his academic conclusions.  Perhaps not surprisingly, his academic approach to issues is not well received in our day because the media and general public are more open to five-second soundbytes than to hearing a a longer but supported discussion on history.

    September 11, 2009 at 3:42 pm #16200 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    I just think that Buchanan goes a little too far in some of his prescriptions.  In some ways he is very extreme in his proposed solutions, he is excellent at identifying and diagnosing societal problems though.  I am like most Americans and want to be governed from the center rather than the extreme from either end of the spectrum.  Unfortunately, the only politicians we seem to have right now are on one side or the other.  Their are no true statesman on the American political scene right now.

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