- This topic has 7 voices and 27 replies.
-
Posts
-
Unsurprisingly, this anniversary goes unremarked in Germany. I did pause and think of my Grandfather this morning who was in the 3rd wave with the 1 ID at Omaha. In some ways they were indeed, The Greatest Generation.
People like me (that certain age) probably had folks of this generation as well as most of our teachers, ministers, coaches, scout leaders etc. These are the men that were kids in the depression, maybe hoboed some or joined the CCC. They then went off to war, saved the world and came back to build post-war America. I've heard that WWII vets are checking out at the rate of 1000 or so per day (est 16 million served). Those that are left must sometimes wonder if, considering what it's like today, was it worth their efforts and sacrifices.
They then went off to war, saved the world and came back
I just love the American point of view 😉
Lets go there.Explain to me how America did not save the world? It was not US troops but US industry that saved the world. The war was one for the most part by soldiers wearing boots and uniforms made in America whose supplies arrived on American hulls or American built railcars and locomotives, and whose food came from the American heartland. America was indeed the Arsenal of Democracy in WWII. The vast majority of munitions and supplies consumed by the allies in WWII were made in the good old US of A.
You're right about industry. American industry won the war and made Soviets reached Berlin. But American troops that landed in Normandy did not save the world. They just saved France, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Luxemburg and half of Germany from being liberated by Iosef Stalin. That day, 6th June 1944, Soviet troops were already within my country's pre-war borders and were just about to launch "Bagration".American troops literally did not save the world and that was my point.
Dont forget all the countries in the Pacific. The Russians did not liberate Poland because they wanted Poland to be free; it just happened to be on the way to Berlin. The next 60 years of Polish history showed how much the Russians cared for Poland. It was 60 years of American defiance of Communism and the Reagan build-up in the 80's in concert with East European agitation that finally freed Poland. Your'e Welcome by the way, It was guys like me that served in the Cold War that put steel behind America and Western Europe's determination to resist communism. No thanks necessary, it was the right thing to do.
People want to forget for nationalistic and/or political reasons. We saved Western Europe from Nazi conquest and immediately after through the Marshall Plan, which stopped communists from winning elections in Italy and France, and NATO, which prevented Western Europe from a Soviet rollover. I served in Germany 1955-56, and if the "red balloon" went up, we were to grab our weapons and head east to engage. Imagine if we had been 100% neutral from 1939 on -- no foreign aid to the Brits or the USSR. And remember, our domestic communist party took orders from Moscow aided by "fellow travelers" and "useful idiots," as Lenin called them.I like to think that although we never saw combat, our presence in Germany as a trip-wire prevented it. A pity when the Cold War ended, Bush One did not thank all draftees for the two years they gave up.By the way, people also forget that we ended the draft in 1946, reinstated Universal Military Training for a year in '47 when the Iron Curtain fell, and had no draft from '48-'50 until North Korea attacked the South.
People want to forget for nationalistic and/or political reasons. We saved Western Europe from Nazi conquest and immediately after through the Marshall Plan, which stopped communists from winning elections in Italy and France, and NATO, which prevented Western Europe from a Soviet rollover.
Well, I know that 🙂Thank you for saving THAT half of Europe 😉
I understand your bitterness. Believe me, I would have liked nothing better than to roll with our tanks into Czechslovakia and Hungary to support the anti-reds. Patton made it to Pisek during WWII before being ordered to turn over the area to the Soviets — Yalta and all that. Horrifying rapes and atrocities took place as our GIs were leaving — they could do nothing.
I don't think that people looking back centuries in the future will think of the Americans as saving the world. They were the most successful combatants in WWII in the sense of being the country that came out best from it. This was the result of shrewd calculation on the part of the US government. It was neither altruistic nor devious. That is just how countries behave. I am in the UK and we were very lucky to be able to buy weapons from the US when we needed them. But we bought them. The terms were easy, but they were still paid for. And the US supplied them because they considered it a good move from their own point of view. It wasn't a generous gift, just good sense. If I were an American citizen I wouldn't have expected my government to behave any differently, and I would have been well pleased with how well they did.
Actually, the vast majority of Lend-Lease Aid was forgiven as part of the Marshall Plan. The only weapons sold to other countries that were ever paid fro were the weapons and equipment sold prior to the enactment of Lend-Lease.
Actually, the vast majority of Lend-Lease Aid was forgiven as part of the Marshall Plan. The only weapons sold to other countries that were ever paid fro were the weapons and equipment sold prior to the enactment of Lend-Lease.
Britain made the final payment on lend lease on the 29th of December 2006. It was a reasonably prominent news story over here at the time. Lend lease was just one facet of US financial support for the UK during WWII. It was a reasonably generous programme given the situation, but it wasn't charity. Post war British history is dominated by the need to pay back money owed to the US as a result of the war. This has had a big impact on reducing Britain's prestige and influence in the world. Ever wondered why the UK is so often the only country voting the US at the UN?Well so be it- life is life and that is the way of the world. I would rather borrow money and have to pay it back than be invaded by the Nazis. A world dominated by the US is preferable to one dominated by fascists or the Soviet Union. But the US followed its own interests in WWII. It certainly wasn't motivated by a desire to 'save the world'.
Britain paid back a total of $650 million out of a Lend-Lease total of roughly $31 billion in aid received. You are correct that the last payment of $83 million was made in 2006. However, I don't think lend-lease and its effect on the British economy has as much to with British decline as you make out. Britain was in decline well before WWII, the war just accelerated the process. Britain went from being a creditor to debtor nation in WWI, the massive costs of that war and the arms race leading up to it did not help. Nor did the financial costs of many of Britain's colonies which were actually net financial losses to England itself.All-in-all I think that yes, we are broadly correct in stating that America saved the world from Nazism. We can split hairs every day of the week and twice on Sunday but the fact remains that absent American participation both during and before our actual Declaration of War, both western Europe and Russia may have been conquered the war would have definitely lasted longer. England might have bankrupted itself and the communists would have been pushed into Siberia. Either way, without America, a long dark night would have descended over Europe.Anyone can feel free to use America as their whipping boy though, Lord knows everybody else is doing it too. We will still be here the next time the world needs help. ;D
