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Nope. That is not correct !Same,true some jews (whose numbers were few comapred to the gentiles around them) migrated to spain and other places. But MASS conversion of PAGANS took place in 6th-7th century.Entire Khazar tribe converted and became jews. They inter-married with other jews and neighboring gentiles. Lets be clear, Einstein,Karl Marx, Blond haired Goldy Horn are NOT SEMITIC jew. They are of european descent who converted to judaism. If you want more detail read "The Jews of Khazaria" by Kevin Alan Brook.These euro jews always maintained their distinct features. They NEVER spoke hebrew until recently. Even in Israel, this RACIAL divide is very pronounced. Ashkhenaz jews -- Jews of Europe. They are NOT semite and have nothing to do with SEMITISM !Sephard and Mizrahi jews- Original Israelites i.e jews of Mid East,also called ARAB jews, since they are SEMITE like ARABS.Are all the christians of the world Semites from Mid East, even though these early christians took christianity to Europe and other nations ? Answer is NO. Son of Mary was a SEMITE, vast majority of those who follow him are NOT semites,rather european,asian,Mid Eastern,African, South America etc.Eastern Europe and Russia has large Muslim population. Bosnians,Albanians,Kosovars,Bulgarians,Tatars,Chechens and so forth. They are not ARAB even though in the lastv 1500 years there were inter-marriages. But by and large they Slavic,Turkish and other ppl of other ethnicity.Hope this clears.
I will have to research this further. I am not convinced that you are correct, it sounds kind of fishy to me. There may be a grain of truth to what you say but I am not sure how much there is.
Eastern Europe and Russia has large Muslim population. Bosnians,Albanians,Kosovars,Bulgarians,Tatars,Chechens and so forth. They are not ARAB even though in the lastv 1500 years there were inter-marriages. But by and large they Slavic,Turkish and other ppl of other ethnicity.
MIgration is not taken into consideration with this statement.
Sure, do all your research. Like I said, if Ashkhenaz(Russian-polish-german-french-italian etc) jews were semites, than so are Romans,Greeks,chinese,africans ! There are ppl in every continent who follows the faith of Islam and bible. Vast majority of of them are NOT SEMITE.The original SEMITIC jews who had been living in Mid-East for thousands of years never called others ANTI SEMITE's who disagrees with them. This was invented by Ashkhenaz jews,who used it as a pilitical tool to demonize all their enemies !Interestingly, they were NOT semites.Just bcz Son of Mary, was a SEMITE,anyone who believes that so is Pope,Hitler and Musolini are living in fools paradise.80% of todays jews are NOT semites but rather converts from ppl of different continents (europe-Asia-Africa).There were hebroos in china,africa,India.These are Native ppl who converted & became jew.
Just so I get this correct, you are arguing the primacy of ethnicity over ideology? You are saying that ethnic (read geographical) origins matter more than cultural or religious origins. Am I getting you right? Therefore anti-semitism is a non starter and political tool and not a real phenomenon?
I am talking about both. They are inter-twined. You can not imagine a black guy to be NAZI ? Can you ? Ethnicity & Ideology is inter-twined & inseparable !They The topic is about HYKOS,who were SEMITE. All ppls in Mid-East who today defines themselves as ARAB are SEMITEs as well.The jews(mostly Mizrahi) who has been living in Mid-East are SEMITES.Interestingly,none of them ever defined their identity as SEMITE. They always defined themselves by their tribes or geographic bondary in which they lived.It is only the NON SEMITES i.e. PAGAN KHAZAR trbies and their ethnic kins who CONVERTED and became hebrew, who are obcessed with the idelogy of SEMITISM !Real SEMITES never calimed and made a big deal of SEMITISM. They,as well as world knows, they are semites.Someone has to claim their ancestory when they know their ancestory is MUDDY ! Pagans in europe who converted and became hebrew,like their kins who became christians has always used idelogy of Anti-Semitism to denounce their opponent. It worked well in europe,bcz their all others are NON SEMITE. It NEVER worked and NEVER will work in Mid-East,bcz over there all are SEMITE!
I am talking about both. They are inter-twined. You can not imagine a black guy to be NAZI ? Can you ? Ethnicity & Ideology is inter-twined & inseparable !
This probably belongs in a separate board but here goes. This concerns your claims about the various groups of Jews and the terms Semitic and anti Semite, as well as your ethinicity link to ideologyAfter further thought, I still think the Semite or not claim is spurious, even meaningless in any wider context. However, I realized I don?t really care whether the Jews of Europe are Semitic or not. I also think the argument is irrelevant to the issue of anti-Semitism as it is a convenient label and serves as a frame of reference.Why are ethnicity and ideology inextricably intertwined? You have to be a white Russian to be a communist? Or is communism not an ideology, how about animal rights crusaders, anti-globalization, or abortion rights? Are these all not ideologies as well?You cannot see the forest for the trees. Ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with which ideology a person espouses. You are misguided at best, deliberately confusing the issue at worst. I am curious about what your agenda is and why you are so vehement about the Ashkenazi Jews not being ethnic Semites.
How do you know the Hyksos weren't Asiatic? Some Egyptians made that claim.If Mid-East part of West Asia ? If so, then off course hykos were from West Asia.So you agree that the Hyksos were a Semitic people?Off course, They were SEMITES like Isralite hebrews. They were not Egyptian. Even a high school kid in Egypt knows that. Thats the problem with ppl who has very little knowledge of Mid-East,always trying to come up with ridiculous theories !Ethnicity has absolutely nothing to do with which ideology a person espouses.You are misguided at best, deliberately confusing the issue at worst. I am curious about what your agenda is and why you are so vehement about the Ashkenazi Jews not being ethnic Semites.Off course,some idelogies are universal and ar not bounded by ethnicity. But NOT the ideology of anti semitism label. I think you are totally misguided and utterly ignorant of historical facts. Stop claiming ashkhenaz jews are SEMITES. Like I said, if these jews of europe are semite, then so is pope,hitler,Musolini. Why not, they follow a religion whoese founder was a semite.You are free to claim yourself anything (including alien from outer space !), but that doen't mean anything. Facts are facts;1. Hykos were SEMITIC(non- hebrew) ppl from Mid-East (which is part of West Asia). 2. And ashkhenaz jews are NOT semites, rather converts from PAGAN Khazars and other tribes in europe. They are no different from other PAGAN tribes in europe who became christians.
I also think the argument is irrelevant to the issue of anti-Semitism as it is a convenient label and serves as a frame of reference.
That is my main point. You are hung up on the question of ethnicity, not me. I think it is a label. Does it make any practical difference whether the Ashkenazim are Semites or not? The roots of anti-Semitism are religious and not racial, it is the bigots who claim Jews have a common ethnicity, I do not. The conventional and historical anti-Semites claimed a racial identity for Judaism.I neither agree or disagree with the racial identity of Jews, I think it is irrelevant to the argument for or against anti-Semitism as I have tried to make plain. My last post was solely about the claims of the origins of European Jews , as I made clear in the opening of the post. I made no statement about the Hyksos.
Good enough. I think we are in agreemtn, jews use “anti-semitism” label as a political tool to demonize their opponents!Anyway, going back to Hykos,some rare tablets from the hykos period are preserved in Cairo Museum.The language is totally different compared to Egyptian. Again, they ruled the eastern delta i.e. the land between the EAST bank of Nile and Read sea. Western bank of Nile upto Libyan border was under Egyptian rule.Hykos called their land "Misr". Later entire egypt (both side of Nile) got known by that name. Even to this day ppl of Egypt calld themselves "Misri" (citizens of Misr !). Hykos and Egyptians were constantly at war for several centuries (~ 400-500 years). Ramses II and later Phraoh's gradually drove them to Sinai and later further East, and incorporated the eastern delta in their domain.That was the END of Hykos !The Hykos introduced many new technology in Egypt including new land revenue system, finance system, Chariots and others, which Egyptians later adopted to modernize their state. In that way, they did had impact on Egypt
Good enough. I think we are in agreemtn, jews use "anti-semitism" label as a political tool to demonize their opponents!
We are in agreement that anti-Semitism is a label, not about its uses. I make no claim about the use of the term as a supposed political tool. If we got right down to it, I probably completely disagree with you as to whether the Jewish people demonize their opponents or not. But that is my opinion and nothing more.
Ramses II and later Phraoh's gradually drove them to Sinai and later further East, and incorporated the eastern delta in their domain.That was the END of Hykos !The Hykos introduced many new technology in Egypt including new land revenue system, finance system, Chariots and others, which Egyptians later adopted to modernize their state. In that way, they did had impact on Egypt
There is no evidence of a Hyskos presence in Egypt before the 14th dynasty. Egypt was already well establish, advanced civilization long before the Hyskos came along. The Hyksos were completely driven out by the 15th dynasty.Ramses II had nothing to do with driving them out because his reign was in the 19th dynasty, about 400 years after the Hyskos disappeared from Egypt, and it was the Pharaohs of the New Kingdom who established the monetary system, not the Hyskos.Mesopotamians invented the chariot c. 3000 BC (if your information is from Wikipedia, which states that the Hyskos introduced the chariot in Egypt, that is very debatable and likely incorrect). Egypt had contact with Mesopotamians and Hittites before the Hyksos came along. There is more solid evidence that suggests it was the Hittites who introduced the chariot to the early Egyptians.
If we got right down to it, I probably completely disagree with you as to whether the Jewish people demonize their opponents or not. But that is my opinion and nothing more.
I totally diagree with you too, that anti-semitism is NOT a political tool. Rather this is a political tool used to not only demonize opponents of jews but to blackmail as well. EU, America is literally scared even to utter simple truths. You can go and critisize the pope, presidents of any nation and anyone in the whole wide world, but NOT any acts by jews. Question acts of Nixon, thats perfectly ok, ask about Kissinger, thats a NO NO.They are always the victims, always the good guy ! Anyway that is my opinion.
