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Does it seem somewhat strange that we don't hear about controversy surrounding the celebration of Guy Fawkes night? Granted, for those of us in the U.S., we probably don't hear much of anything about Guy Fawkes to begin with, but even doing a search for terms such as “guy fawkes night” +criticism or “guy fawkes night” +controversy doesn't lead to any stories about the propriety of celebrating the event in the way that it is done even to this day.Why might it be controversial? Because it is the celebration of a real event that involved fierce religious/political fighting and persecution, and it continues to include the burning of the effigy of Guy Fawkes. This is from Wikipedia:
The night begins with torchlight processions in costume by a number of local bonfire societies and culminates in six separate bonfires where effigies of Guy Fawkes, Pope Paul V and topical personalities are destroyed by firework and flame. The burning of an effigy of Pope Paul V is carried out by the Cliffe Bonfire Society alone and they are barred from marching with the main procession.
Granted, this Cliffe Bonfire Society may be a splinter group, but shouldn't the burning of a pope in effigy at least suggest to us that there are certain anti-Catholic sentiments that underlie the entire celebration?I will now cut to the chase - the reason I find it odd that there's no visible controversy surrounding this is because if there were any celebration, for example, surrounding the burning of a Jewish historical figure, it would be undoubtedly lead to such a huge uproar and we would see a serious clampdown on all related activities. So, is this a double standard?
I think most folks have focused on the political, rather than the religious angle… otherwise I agree with you 100%.
Wally's got it right again, it is the politics not the religion. Plus, he is a Catholic Pope, everybody loves to beat up on the Catholics. How many priest molesting children jokes have you heard? Maybe I should beat the person up the next time I hear one of those and claim that I got so angry I could not control myself. Or would that be considered intolerance? Or maybe even the joke is intolerant in the first place and the joke teller is at fault? … On second thought, I will do what I normally do which is defend the church and privately think about what an idiot the person telling the joke is. If I am at work, I guess I could file a complaint, it works for every other group.When I lived in England as a kid, Guy Fawkes day was a huge party, kind of the like July 4th, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and Columbus Day all rolled into one.
I agree with both of you that the political angle is what is celebrated….not to mention the fact that many people do, in fact, like excuses to have parties and attach themselves to traditions regardless of the underlying reason. The problem that I see is that for truly politically correct issues, that distinction is not made. What made me think of this topic is that I had just read a story on the following issue:The Fight Over a Song at Ole MissThe school cracked down on the band's playing of a song because at the end students would add "the south will rise again," which apparently is not P.C. Is adding that line at the end racist, i.e. a hope for "white power" to be restored? Well, yes I think that there are probably some people who interpret it that way. But is the line also not interpreted in a race-neutral way which merely echoes harmless sentiments of pride in southern culture, which includes people of different races? Yes, and I would say this latter line is probably far more popular of the two interpretations.So if people can make a distinction between levels of interpretation when it comes to Guy Fawkes night, why can't they make the same distinctions when it comes to a line at the end of a song? It's the kind of politically correct, yet inconsistent thinking of modern society that bothers me.
It's the kind of politically correct, yet inconsistent thinking of modern society that bothers me.
That kind of thinking bothers any of us. Unfortunately, rational people tend to get shouted down. If we stoop to their tactics then we have lost any claim to rationality, it is a Catch 22 that the perennially victimized win almost by default.
I wonder if, just like Guy Fawkes tried, some did succeed to blow away another Parliament on last November 2 ?! ;D
Like “remember, remember, the second of November?” I think that rhyme is probably overdone! (not to mention it can be used in conjunction with events in September and December as well!)
Why don't the Germans celebrate Operation Valkyrie Day? I see it as similar to Guy Fawkes in a way.
Well, they made a stamp commemorating Stauffenberg and Moltke...
I think there's an essential difference between the British and the Americans: In the U.S., they revile and barely remember the names of treasonous traitors who tried to destroy their way of life. In the U.K., they have holidays in honour of such efforts. 😉
I think there's an essential difference between the British and the Americans: In the U.S., they revile and barely remember the names of treasonous traitors who tried to destroy their way of life. In the U.K., they have holidays in honour of such efforts. 😉
Benedict Arnold? John Wilkes Booth? Lee Harvey Oswald? Timothy McVeigh? See my other post on Guy Fawkes for something else interesting!
