Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
What about the Minoan Civilisation ?They were part of the Bronze Age, the Aegean civilization, ages before the Dorians settled in Ancient Greece.Could they be considered as pre-Greek people (cfr. Indo-European invasions as a cause of the Bronze Age Collapse) ?
Yes, I think the Minoan are special. However, I would go with Sumer. It seems Sumer influenced all the others. At least 5 biblical stories are Hebrew translations of Sumerian stories. Did any civilization have writing before Sumer?
But didn't Buddha started off as a Hindu?
You may be right, I am not a religious history expert. I thought the Buddha was an animist before he founded his religion. I may need to do some more research here. I do find it curious however, that such a small region of the world has produced so many of the great religions.
What is so great about people stealing each others stories and adding their own twist to them?
Why do you think so many of the world's great religion come out of the relatively small area of the Middle East? This comes up because in my son's Social Studies class his teacher pointed out that the only Major religion without Indian or Middle Eastern origins is Buddhism. I had never considered this, but it is true. I just started to wonder why that is.
I don't think this teacher was well informed. Buddhism begins with Gautama who was born in the town now know as Nepal. His family belonged to the Kahatriya cast, the second highest in Indian society. Tao is one of the oldest Chinese religions. Buddhism entered China from India and competed with Taoism. I am not sure why we do not consider native American spirituality religion, but I do know the religions this teacher had to be thinking about, all came from the same region because these people shared ideas and gave them new interpretations. At least 5 biblical stories were Sumerian stories translated by Hebrews in Ur. And Christianity has much Egyptian mythology mixed in it and Persian ideas as well, and of course much Hellism. We should not ignore how Rome used the Law of Nature, to create Christianity- one religion out of many. We all know Rome carried Christianity and destroyed all other believes wherever it went. Here and there, around the world, indigenous people have retained some of their former religious practices and adopted Christianity. This adaptation of Christianity is possible because there is a common mythology around the world, as is explained by Joseph Campbell. Jung was the first who realized humanity shares a common mythology, and Joseph Campbell made a study of them.
The US will fall as Athens and Rome fell and for the same reasons. Oil is to the US what gold was to Rome. When Rome exhausted its gold supply it developed serious economic problems that lead to the fall. This comes from a 1920 Newspaper. “Given our known supply of oil and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war.” Past President Carter was right when he said we need to conserve. The conservation effort should have begun in the 1920 tys, because we never got off the path to economic disaster and war. As for the fall of Athens, that democracy lasted about 200 years, about as long as the US has been a democracy, and our invasion of Iraq, is not so different from Athens military build up and misuse of its military might, for economic reasons, bringing all other Greek city states against Athens, and finally the Spartan occupation of Athens, and the killing of Socrates. In general, the US has consumed its mineral resources and spent its wealth. On top of this, it is destroying its farm land, and lowering its water table faster than it can be refilled. Of course this not special to the US, but thinking life will go on as we have enjoyed it, is not realistic.
I certainly can not condense an explanation to three sentences, and it seems the custom here to keep post very short. Donald Kagan's book “Pericles of Athens and the Birth of Democracy”, uses a full chapter to explain the Parthenon, and that would be just the beginning of the explanation of change. The change occurs over a long time before the Parthenon was built and following the building of the Parthenon. Perhaps it is easier for you to explain to me, how Athens became a naval force that could defeat Persia and the political ramifications of meeting this urgent military need.
Red hair could indicate a genetic connection with Neanderthals who also had the genes for red hair.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025143311.htm
I love it when science proves the bible correct. However, as I told my nephew who is an ordained minister, science also proves Greek myths are based on fact. For example, we know the Trojan war was not just a make believe story, but actually happened. We do not jump to the conclusion that the Greek gods are real, just because stories about them are based on historic events. I like to believe our time in history was predicted in the Giza pyramid, by the Tarot Cards, and the I Ching and Aztec matrix. Then I love looking for scientific evidence that might prove what I want to believe. So in this context, the Resurrection was predicted. In my personal belief system, we are in the Resurrection right now, as archeologist and related sciences, resurrect our past. It is also possible humans are resurrected through the process known as reincarnation. Now if I am right, what we are suppose to do now is, take advantage of the Internet and the flood of information from all the different fields of science. We are to learn as much as we possibly can, and part of this process is communicating with each other. Knowledge is not just about having facts, but also insight into the meaning of those facts. 🙂
Oh my, 🙂 I could almost write a book in response to your questions. The Parthenon would be idea of possible the most important building in history, because it does mark the time in history when there was a shift from rule by whim to rule by reason. I don't think we should discuss all the successful civilizations of history in this thread. 🙂 However, if you want to discuss the success of Aztecs, and the benefits of ritual cannibalism, just start the thread and PM me. People have reacted very badly to me saying such things in the past, so perhaps I should provide so context to what is a pragmatic statement. I am not the normal poster. I have studied humanity for many years, from every point of view possible, psychologically, sociologically, religion and myth, historically, etc. . The point is I am very board minded and pragmatic. If someone's reasoning is better then mine, I will accept that reasoning as the best reasoning. However, like Socrates I can really annoy people by questioning what we reason. I constantly question my own reasoning, and see paradox often. Water is good for us, as long it is not contaminated. Our reasoning can be perfect, except for this one little glitch that turns everything upside down, like the contamination in the water. So I hope people take anything I say too seriously, okay? That said, comparing the important difference a successful civilization based on false beliefs with the success of a civilization based on a developing scientific study of nature, is an important comparison to make. The question of this thread is when and where did western civilization. My answer is, it began in Athens, and the Parthenon marks the time and place of this transition. I will explain more of anyone cares.
I believe Athens is the father of our sciences, mother of western civilization and parent of democracy, because they did something unique. That something unique was to move us away from superstition and in the direction of secular science. It was the way they coded information that made all the difference. While all the world believed in Gods, the philosophers of Athens took this concept a step further. They concluded, reason, thought of as constituting the controlling principle of the universe and as being manifest by speech.Before this conclusion, like everyone else, Greeks were ruled by people of power, who ruled by whim. Even the God of the Hebrews rules by whim, depending on if he is pleased or not. But the Greek philosophers understanding of the controlling principle, meant even the gods were subject to this controlling principle of the universe. To really get a good understanding of this important difference, it is helpful to read Cicero, a Roman statesman, and his explanation of "right reason". "Right reason" is knowledge of the controlling principle of the universe. What we might call cause and effect. This turn man away from superstitious notions, to a study nature to the determine the causes of effects. Everything we are taught to value, including our sense of liberty and justice, depends on this unique way of thinking of our reality. This turns our minds from the established east to the new west.
