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.... However, I do think that overall the Industrial Revolution led to greater social change in America. It also led to significant changes across the spectrum in economics, politics, and culture, as likely in religion as well. .... I don't think that the Civil War/Reconstruction affected the entire nation in the same way that the Industrial Revolution did.
Nor the world. In a nut shell the I/R makes us the consumer society we are today and gives us a true middle class with discretionary income and the leisure time to spend it. Marx' communist revolutions never worked in industrialized nations because the upward mobility that was present in them took the impetus, that is, the need to artificially redistribute wealth (the land in feudal or semi-feudal agrarian societies) away.Wally
I put my .02 cents in over there.....let me know if anyone responds six months from now. 😀
I like it!
.... What changed society more in 19th Century America - the Civil War and Reconstruction or the Industrial Revolution?
I/R. As it helped drive the mechanism that made the Civil War impossible to escape. As I see it, without it the north would have been an agrarian society like the south only based on staple, rather than cash, crops. Wally
I recall reading about a Chinese map but I thought it was of uncertain origin and there was criticism raised that it was a fake. I believe this issue has been raised within the last few years.
Quite correct; while no smoking gun the case made in 1421 is compelling and well defended, for the Chinese theory. Well worth the read, it was very hard to put down.Wally
Did Christophe Colombus really discover America. There must of been others before him the vikings or maybe the chinese from the other side of the world. ❓
A case can be made for both ideas you propose... however the roving hunters coming across from Asia are the real deal. C2 gets the nod because his discovery because of the connection to Europe and they my friends, are the ones that write the history that we read.
You are most correct sir. He mapped the North American continent and did a remarkable job at that considering he didn't have satellite imaging like we do nowadays.
According to Menzies' excellent book, 1421, both Vespucci and the other European cartographers had something better... Chinese (or Chinese based) maps that predate any voyages of C2.Wally
I do think that advances in knowledge were made during the Dark Ages and... not that no progress was made, but rather that great works of literature seem to be absent.What I meant by the lack of literature from the period is that we don't really have significant works from the Dark Ages ... Middle Ages then produced some great works like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, the Divine Comedy, etc.According to the earlier thread I mentioned above, the "Dark" adjective for the post-Roman age in Europe was made by humanists as a jab at the time period. Although we now know it wasn't so "dark" after all, the term remains.
Works for me... too bad some of my students will always fall for the idea that the sun didn't come up for several hundred years....Wally
It may be somewhat true. Beowulf .... I can't think of much in terms of writing from the Dark Ages. During the Middle Ages we begin to see seminal works such as The Canterbury Tales and The Divine Comedy.
The key here is that the knowledge and lit. were aropund but not readily available to the masses; not having a wide audience was the kiss of death, this all cleared up when the Ren/Ref dawned and people began to read and expand their horizons. I agree there was much going on but only a few knew anything about it... them calling this era the Dark Ages was like calling Africa the Dark Continent... ignorant but understandable.When we judge history by today's standards history will always come out on the low end of things.Cheers,Wally
At that time the country was busy with Civil Rights and the Cambodian invasion… I agree totally with your position on less pollution is better and also that we need to look at who is pushing what agenda and what is in it for them.Wally
Back in college I took classes in environmental science; the world picture was very grim… the population bomb, world wide famine, deforestation, expanding deserts and such. while some of the scenarios are playing out they are on a scale no where nearly approaching the scale predicted. Technology has exceeded predictions in holding off these things; the same technology that is being raked over the coals for global warming… 😕We also, in geology, learned that the earth produces a steady stream of emissions through volcanic action and the chemical breakdown of minerals... in meteorology and climatology we looked at the cyclic nature of climatic patterns, both long term and short term. Man does add to the problem and we do need to adjust what we do but the contribution we make isn't going to snuff us out as soon or as catastrophically as Al Gore would have us believe... IMHO.My Envi Sci prof was first rate and knew that the mad scientist stereotype wasn't going to get the message across; to convince people would require a calm and rational, reasoned approach with ideas for solutions. Today we get the likes of Michael Moore and Al Gore preaching doom and death if we don't listen to them and craw into a hole somewhere. Too bad. We do need to conserve resources and look for better ways to do things but as long as we preach to the developing world and don't change our style we just look foolish and continue the problems.China and the rest need power and raw materials, so do we. The technology is there and has been for some time to reduce emissions from coal fired plants... it's expensive but it's there. We need to quit looking for pie in the sky and just go with the cookies we've already got in the jar.Wally,PS Thanks Phid, for opening up the reply tab; hope this little science rant doesn't make you regret it!CheersW.
So really our lack of knowledge as to how things progreesed during that time is why it came to be called the dark ages?
Seems likely to me at least.Wally
When the owner hasnt been on in months I would say he has given up, at this point I think he has let the spammers have it. So I just dont see how they are competing with anyone right now.
That would be my position as well. careful on the invite as the spammers may follow also; taxing the software and administrators' patience.Wally
... Union Army honored the fallen of the Confederacy when they occupied the field. Both sides respected each other even in the heat of battle. The Civil War was a national purification....
All far too true, this was an age of gallantry and honor... most of the leaders of these troops were "brothers" at West Point and in the Mexican War. As for the average southern trooper, while he didn't own slaves he fought for his way of life that was based on the "peculiar institution" none-the-less. Given this the soldiers on both sides were common men but in that time there was a thread of civility (even among the lowly) that seems to be missing today. They hated the game, not hate player; yes... kill or be killed but that is war, always has been.Seems to me this went out after WWI. The common thread today is to de-humanize the enemy (starts with some of the WWI propaganda) and then any atrocity is fair game as they're somehow subhuman and it's okay.These men were all Americans... they served with honor and gave their all. 'nuff said.Time for another Scotch....Wally
... we all know most southern soldeirs wernt fighting for slavery, they were fighting for thier homes... we all know the north as a whole wasnt figting to rid the country of slavery either.
True on both counts; the revisionists though, want to assign the logic and values of today to that bygone time. When we judge historical events and persons in the light of today the past will always lose. We have to look at the time and what was going on and the values of the time before we can comment. It's called historical empathy.This upsets me like the flap over displaying the Enola Gay the revisionists said it promoted using nukes!If they fight tribute to the southern soldiers they need to not celebrate the Emancipation Proclaimation either... a grandstand play that had little real effect.Wally
.... like "sorrow" in politics, like when Jerry Brown became governor of California after his father (?) lost... same way it was said that George H.W. lost in 1992 to Bill Clinton and so then people kind of felt sorry and voted his son into office. I thought it was kind of intersting but can't remember exactly where I heard it.
Seems like it could be the case... both dads were pretty main stream and respected, even if not agreed with, by the other party. The kids ride in on the thought of returning to the ol' man's philosophy after someone very counter... Reagan in the case of the Browns and Clinton for the Bush clan... we all found they weren't their dad's kind of politician, eh?Wally
