Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
By the same author: Desire of the Everlasting Hills; what live in Jesus' time and place was like; The Gifts of the Jews; and Sailing the Wine Red Sea about the Greco-Roman Med.He's supposed to write two or three more... calls it the Hinges of History series.All have been good reads.Sorry I'm more a plodding, stumbling, centrist, militant Druid... ::)
Though I'm not quite ready to re-register at CL, I do lurk a bit and was interested in the item about the duality of sin. It is interesting that the Irish (at least according to the author of How The Irish Saved Civilization) are, more or less, the reason confession works like it does….Seems Patrick was having a bit of trouble getting converts with the contemporary system of public confession and one shot at penance... the Irish were prone to repeat sinfulness (fighting, fornicating, drunkenness, etc., all the fun things) and such an all or nothing go seemed not their thing. They did, however, have the concept of trying to improve... and the method was confession to their soul friend who would give them (secret) counsel and encourage better behavior in the future.Patrick just used this idea to sell the priest as the soul friend with the connection to the One that could make it all right and make it stick... might take a time or two but.... Sounds wild I know but the author makes a good case for it.
About 1166 we see Dermot MacMurrough ally himself with Henry II to get support to regain the throne of Ireland… the beginning of the problem. If (with Henry's help) he loses Henry is out little… if he wins Henry becomes overlord to all of Ireland under Dermot's rule.Having married off his daughter to the Norman Strongbow (Richard Fizgilbert de Clare; Earl of Pembroke), Dermot eventually kicks enough arse and takes enough names... aided by Robert de Barry as well to attain a foothold in his quest. When Strongbow finally gets involved (1170) it's more than just a fight to get Demot the throne... O'Connor offered it to him if he'd get the Normans to leave.No such luck; the Normans were to much in control to be banished and by 1171 when Dermot died, Strongbow appointed himself King of Leinster. Henry was a bit pissed with this and made a trip to the Emerald Isle to make sure Strongbow knew his place in the scheme of things. To keep his head and accomplishments in tact Sb deferred to Hank and all was well.In 1177 Henry named (2nd) son John Lord of Ireland... when John collects the throne of England he finally visits and offended the chieftains... from there all downhill.The religious issue is something the English build in, when, in their effort to subdue the native Catholics import Scottish Protestants and give them land. At first it was Irish (regardless of religion) vs English: land issue. As most of the favored folks were Protestant it sort of took that direction until today that's all it seems to be about.BTW, the independence issue is quite old. 1258 saw Brian O'Neill proclaimed Ard Ri ; 1260 saw his head shipped to Henry III. No more High King of Ireland. This tale goes on through the Act of Union (1800) and through various Risings over the years 'til today.
As the only background I have that comes from the UK is Irish I'd have likely gone it the back-country… if they were coming that early. However, family history tends to indicat they came later (during or post famine) then likely New York (?) and moved west. Great GF was in the Ill. Vol. in the Civil war according to family legend.
Only the fact that Hitler was pulling them out of the world-wide depression… hard to bite the hand that fed you. FDR in many ways was becoming ever bit as totalitarian as Hitler or Mussolini, but, he was our [potential] tyrant working what we saw as more acceptable ways.
... colonies providing natural resources & manpower but with the imposed internal taxes to payback war debts, colonists were being squeezed dry without any recourse in Parliament.
Indeed. Herein lies the rub; by the English train of though this wasn't an issue. The idea we had, that we needed to be represented in Parliament, was completely beyond their understanding. We had virtual representation in that every MP was representing all of the Empire. Worked every bit as well in Ireland too, eh? 😉
... a source of social tension within the colonies due the economic burden suffered by New Englanders, especially, in relation to their economic losses ... eventually the losses outweighed the profits. ... mical hardship because they left an unprecedented number of widows & children on the relief rolls. ... tensions to increase in the colonies against England the Proclamation of 1763? England believed this boundary would sufficiently keep colonists from venturing into Indian lands but in fact, squatters and land speculation companies had already made claims to lands.The House of Burgesses eventually recognized these claims but England never did due in part to the expense involved in supporting these claims?
All have an impact. My favorites though, are the 10K troops left to protect the colonies from the Indians (enforce the boundary line... too little, too late as you point out) and the effort to lay the cost on the colonies (and the ham-handed methods that wrangled the sensibilities of the good Englishmen that we were at the time).
